Did y'all know it's Taurus season? And did y'all know I'm a Taurus? To celebrate my birthday *and* the podcast's birthday in June, I'm taking the month of May off. You'll still get to hear stuff though- I'm remastering a few favorites from season 1, back when I didn't know how to level or give you any kind of good sound quality. Actually some people emailed me and said that they would love the show- if they could hear it. Well, now's your chance. To start off the lovely month of May, here's Charlye of the Witch Bitch Amateur Hour. Even if you heard the first episode you should listen to this version- it's got a few little new nuggets for your ear holes.

Birthday Month Remix: Charlye of the Witch Bitch Amateur Hour

Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories, and sometimes a little witchcraft. Did y'all know it's Taurus season? And did y'all know I'm a Taurus? To celebrate my birthday and the podcast's birthday in June, I'm taking the month of May off. You still get to hear stuff though. I'm remastering a few favorites from season 1 back when I didn't know how to level or give you any kind of good sound quality. Actually some people even emailed me and said that they would love to love the show... if they could hear it. Well now's your chance. To start off the lovely month of May here's Charlye of the Witch Bitch Amateur Hour. Even if you heard the first episode already you should listen to this version. It's got a few little new nuggets for your ear holes. Now let's get to the stories!

Kim: Well, welcome to the show, Charlye. 

Charlye: Hi. We haven't been here already chatting for 30 minutes. 

Kim: Of course not. Has it really been? 

Charlye: Oh no. 

Kim: Okay. 

Charlye: Surely not. 

Kim: I don't have any concept of time. 

Charlye: Who cares? 

Kim: Okay, good. 

Charlye: I mean the sun's up, that's all I know. 

Kim: It's fake. It's fake. 

Charlye: Who invented it? You know? Stop it. I'm so glad to be here, by the way. Thank you for having me on the show. 

Kim: Thanks for coming on the show. Please tell me, who are you? Who, who? I really want to know.

Charlye: Well, listen to me. My name is Charlye Michelle. Except in this chat I have named myself loaf of bread and it's important for everyone to know that. Charlye Michelle, I am one half of the Witch Bitch Amateur Hour podcast. The other half being my cousin Macy, who already had her episode come out, at least part one for sure, right? Yeah, at this point. I'm just kind of not really anybody who started a podcast about witchcraft and that's my life now. What a change, what a change it has been.

Kim: Why did you go for a podcast instead of like YouTube or a blog? 

Charlye: Because between Macy and I, I think we, hmm, how do I say this? We can be a little impulsive. And I think the word podcast was the first thing that came up in conversation. So we just sort of latched onto that. And we're like, yes, podcast, let's do it. Because we had been sort of new to the world of podcasts in general and listening to our own personal favorites. And we had a big conversation at her place once, just about everything, anything and everything.
And it was a little bit, it was like kind of edging onto like witchy stuff, but not really because we weren't super comfortable with each other. Like we didn't know, I hadn't like looked at her and been like, are you, are you into that kind of shit? You know, and she, she hadn't said the same to me. And, um, but we did have this really long conversation and she Marco'd me after it and said, you know, I was thinking about that super long conversation that we had where we just giggled and talked about crap. She's like, I think we could, I think we could do that like as a, as a job. 

Kim: We can monetize that. 

Charlye: I think we can, I think we can make... no. (both laugh) You know, what's funny is it never, it never started to be like, she never said, I think we could do this as a job, you know? She was just like what if we just did this for for fun just to see if anyone gave a shit about us, or like would listen to to it at all, just to see what would happen. It was more of an experiment than anything, and just this fun thing we could do together. And it turned into what it is. So it's, it's amazing. But you said why podcast? Sorry. I'm, I'll try to stay on topic here. (both laugh) Good luck. Why a podcast? I don't know, you know, and and since we've started the podcast we have talked about all the other avenues to go down. Like I'm really interested in starting like a YouTube channel.

Kim: I'm interested in you starting a YouTube channel. 

Charlye: I would love it!  I just, I have to get the,  I have to get the kick, the kick in the butt to do it, you know, um, and- 

Kim: I have feet, I have shoes, I have boots.

Charlye: If you could keep me on it, I will do it, man! The thing is, is, I think po- po- bleh. Also, podcasting was the, I don't want to say easiest, because I don't want to belittle it, because it is a lot of work, but I think it was the lesser amount, you know, because on YouTube, you'd also have the video element. And neither of us, you know, when we started, were not kidding about the amateur thing. Like we didn't know how to do any kind of editing at all whatsoever. Audio, visual, nothing, none of it. So it was sort of the like quickest thing that we could learn, you know, and not have like worry about making a set or getting an expensive camera or anything like that. 

Kim: I was on YouTube in like 2006 making videos regularly, so I was used to editing and I used Audacity back then, so I was familiar with those things, so that's why I'm, I feel, I felt okay starting this. 

Charlye: And I think it's so cool, I think it's, so you've got so many irons in so many fires and I respect it so hard. Because I've got one iron and one fire and I'm exhausted all the time. (laughs) But um, yeah, I remember we when we first started we used audacity to edit, and we would call each other to have two-hour Rant sessions about how much we hated audacity. I mean things we've never talked about, like never spoke about in the past, like would just the weirdest shit. We'd call each other and just be like "I hate leveling!" or whatever, you know. So it kind of it changed the way we speak to each other. 

Kim: Let's get started on the witch stuff. 

Charlye: Okay yes, ooh I love the witch stuff!

Kim: Do you feel like you've chosen a label for yourself yet? Because I know in the past you've said that you didn't really have one yet. That was a long time ago though, relatively speaking. 

Charlye: Yeah, relatively speaking. It's crazy because it's really just been about three years but it feels like a lifetime. Yeah. I just want to say first of all, I just want to put this out there, I'm a huge fan of labels. I know a lot of people don't and I'm not saying everyone needs one. I'm not saying it's important to have one. I just love the fact that you can find your group. You know what I mean? You can be like, are you this? Are you that? So I love it. However, for myself, I don't know if I've fully adopted any kind of label. I think eclectic would be, as boring as it is, I think it would be probably the most accurate for myself because if I sat here and I went down the list of every label that I wanted, it would be like a little kitchen witch, a little bit of hedge witch, a little bit of this and that, it would be every label. I don't think that I've officially come around to anything. I like to say above everything else, I'm like divination, like divination witch.

Kim: That's so cool to me because, OK, I have, I have this. I feel this kinship with you and Macy for different ways. 

Charlye: I remember you wrote us an email way back when.

Kim: That was my first email. 

Charlye: You- Was it really?!

Kim:  Yes. 

Charlye: I still think about that. You were like, I feel connected with Macy because of this and I feel connected with you because of this, and anyway, I'm sorry, go on.

Kim: But in this we are so different because I don't do, I can't, I can't do divination. I don't do divination. I don't understand it. 

Charlye: Really, Mm-hmm.

Kim:  It just doesn't seem to work for me. I do other things.

Charlye:  Yeah, 

Kim: That'sinteresting that I have, like I feel this connection with you with healing, and probably snacks. (both laugh) 

Charlye: Hey, look. 

Kim: The stuff we'll go into later, that stuff?

Charlye: Oh, man.

Kim: I really connect with the way our brains work. Okay, but not divination. 

Charlye: (laughs) Well, and that's what's cool about it to me, you know, is in the beginning of all of this, I struggled with it a little bit because I wanted to be good at everything, you know. Or I sat there and I thought, am I good at anything? You know, what's going to pop forward? And I kind of burnt myself out in trying so many different things. Like one thing I am not good at is I'm not good with, I'm not good with like, how do I put it? Earth kind of stuff. And in the way that you are, in the way that Macy is. You know, I'm not good with like finding an herb, like working with herbs and stuff. I love to do it, but I don't think I have a natural hand in it. You know, and I'm not like Macy. I can't go out and just be like, hey, this tree wants to talk to me. You know what I mean? I can't do that. And I wanted to so much, and it's a struggle to like find what you're good at, and it's even further a struggle to like accept that, I think. So I think I'm in a good place where I'm like, you know what, hey, it's cool. Some people are good at this and good at that, and I'm never going to be like, God, I don't know, like a- 

Kim: Green witch? 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, thank you. I was looking for the word. I don't think I'm ever going to be like a natural, to my core, green witch. You know, somebody who can just have plants and not kill them. That's not me. 

Kim: It's taken me until now to figure out how to keep them alive. 

Charlye: How to what? 

Kim: How to keep them alive. 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah. (laughs) I know, and I feel so bad about it because when I do have a plant that flourishes, I feel like I love it as much as I love my pets. And I don't know if that's, you know, but like to watch it then, and especially when this freeze came through Texas a couple months ago, and it was dropping well below freezing inside the home. Like there was nothing we could do. 

Kim: That's batshit. 

Charlye: I mean, dude, we brought plants into the house because that normally saves them, you know and I almost lost my favorite plant, but he's still here recouping.

Kim: Not today, bitch. 

Charlye: I know I feel like, I put it like right by the fire, I put an actual blanket over it to like keep it alive. It was stupid. I took so much care of this fucking plant. 

Kim: That's not stupid. That's how you do it.

Charlye:  But see, I am...

Kim: That's being a caring lady.

Charlye:  Hey Hey, is that what that feels like? To care for something? Oh, God. But like, Macy, she just like, to watch her just like, dance in between her plants that she has is, it's amazing. You know, because she'll just like, walk by and spritz it and she'll kind of touch it and have a whole, I can tell she's having a whole conversation, you know, in her head like, what do you need right now? What can I do for you? And I'm looking at her just, it's like watching two people speak in a language that you don't understand. You're like, what are you saying? What? I don't understand. It's a cool thing to watch though. 

Kim: Do you still consider yourself to be an amateur?

Charlye: Oh, for sure. Absolutely. And I would never not want to, you know, I think. While there are things I think that I'm skilled in, it's never, I'm never gonna, nobody's ever gonna know everything about everything, you know? In the podcast we talk about, what if we run out of topics? You know, we're like, what do we do the day that we've talked about everything? And you realize the more and more you get into it and the more people reach out to you and they say, hey, you know, I don't think you have this in, you know, where you live, but over here in my country, we have this particular herb and can you talk about this, you know, and the more you just find out how big it is, you're never going to run out of, we're never going to run out of topics, you know what I mean? So in the same way, there's things that I'm naturally good at. I'm kind of good at, I'm finding that I'm just kind of skilled at, again, the divination stuff. However, I don't know how to read cards. You know what I mean? 

Kim: Yes.

Charlye: (laughs) Like, I feel like they're – you know how that feels? (laughs)  Like, I think they work, you know, like I always, when I look them up, I take the meaning from them and I still do it. But right now, I'm chomping on that. I'm learning that. And then after I feel skilled in that, it'll be another thing to move on to. And you're always going to be, or I am, anyway, I don't want to put words in everybody's mouths, but I'm always going to be an amateur at something. And you know what? In a lot of ways, we're still amateur podcasters. We still leave complete accidents in the episodes. We still completely screw up all the time. You know, we've talked about it before that when we make these little screw ups, we're gonna address them, you know, but we'll leave them there. Because we want other people to be like, oh, hey, they fucked this up pretty bad. (laughs) But then they came and then they learned and now they're like telling everybody else about it. So, and that was always the point, you know, is to like, let us be the ones that get yelled at, you know, about making mistakes. And then you can just kind of listen and be like, oh, okay, now I know not to do that, you know? Yes, amateur.

Kim:  Like gentleman's butthole. (laughs) 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is weird because things like that happen pretty frequently. Like you'll do all of your notes and you'll say, this is also known as, you know, like, gentlemen's butthole. But then two years later, you'll come along, you'll be like, wait, no, this plant is the REAL gentleman's butthole. And it's like no one ever had their shit together back then. It's like they were, they were playing around with these names as much as we were or as much as we are now. So...

Kim: That's why nerds like me use scientific names. Especially in the tarantula community. 

Charlye: Oh my god, I think that's something I block out of my mind because every time you mention that I'm like oh my god right, she's like, she's like tarantula lady. And I watched your videos like of like where you're like putting them in, you know, you're just working with them. and I go, it's one of those things that I watch, but I feel like my brain doesn't process, if that makes sense. It's the coolest thing. 

Kim: Yeah, we used to breed them and sell them. I know how to package them for shipping so that they won't die. 

Charlye: Right. Are you, is there fear there? Or is it just like...

Kim: Yeah!

Charlye: Really? 

Kim: Spiders are creepy as hell, dude. These are giant spiders and some of them can hurt you. 

Charlye: I was going to say, do they, they're not biters, are they? I mean, I know they can, but they don't like typically just go for it, do they? 

Kim: It depends on which one you're working with, because the ones from the Americas generally have another defense that they prefer to use, defense, and that's the kick, they kick the hairs off. And they're barbed and they stick in you and they give you like this allergic reaction that makes you itch or it gets in your eye and it sucks ass. 

Charlye: Oh, I think I would rather be bit.

Kim: Which has never happen to me thank God. I mean maybe. (both laugh) And then the other ones from like Africa and Asia, they have a more, they don't have the urticating hairs like that. So their first defense is run, and the second is to bite and they have, I guess, medically significant bites to where... It's not like a black widow bite. 

Charlye: Right. 

Kim: Or maybe it is. I don't remember how black widow bites work, how their venom works. One of my favorites is a pokey. It's a Poecilotheria regalis, I think is how you say it. 

Charlye: Oh my. 

Kim: And those hurt so much that you might have a heart attack, but it's not going to kill you if you can get through the pain. And that effect is long lasting. So don't screw around with them. 

Charlye: Oh, ew. So you're going to be in pain for a very long time. 

Kim: Yeah. 

Charlye: OK. Have you been bit? 

Kim: No, thank God. 

Charlye: Really? Wow. 

Kim: I don't, I don't mess with them. I am not somebody who handles, I don't believe in handling them. They don't get anything out of it. 

Charlye: Okay. 

Kim: They are in danger if you do it. And plus, why would I want to get bitten or have hairs kicked on me? No, thank you. 

Charlye: Yeah. You know, I think it's because it's really easy to like, um, what's the word? Not humanize, I guess, but like, want to think that they enjoy, like, being held and petted and stuff like a dog, I guess, if you're like, in that world of like, keeping them as a pet. Do you keep them as pets still? 

Kim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have three.

Charlye:  Do you have, do they have names and stuff? 

Kim: No, no. I mean it's just barely above having a plant. 

Charlye: I know but still I want to name him like Mr. Top hat or something just something stupid.

Kim: I used to but now I just like looking at them sometimes. 

Charlye: Yeah. 

Kim: They sit up above my desk and sometimes scare the shit out of me because I'll see something moving out of the corner of my eye. 

Charlye: Oh shit, I forgot you were here. 

Kim: Yeah, exactly. 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not unlike seeing spirits, honestly. (laughs)

Kim: Okay.  See, that's something I don't ever do. (laughs)

Charlye: See, that just sounds very familiar. 

Kim: Except for possibly once. 

Charlye: Just like being at the desk and just seeing something dart across the room and going, oh my god, I forgot, I see ghosts. (both laugh)

Kim: That's awful. With me, it's going to be a mouse or one of those giant cockroaches that the cat brought in. 

Charlye: I have- 

Kim: So no thank you. 

Charlye: Oh, cockroaches give me the willies. That is like my thing. Like some people are like, oh, I'm scared of snakes or whatever. Like cockroaches, that's my fear. 

Kim: I just don't want anything loose. I want nothing... if it's contained, I'm cool with it being in the house, except for like venomous snakes. But if it's loose, get out. And venomous snakes I don't want in the house because if they get out, because we're forgetful people. I don't want to die. 

Charlye: Right, yeah.  And that's a problem there where you are, right? Like you've got, it's like there are snakes there, right? 

Kim: Just rattlesnakes mostly. We have coral snakes, but they're really small and they're rare. So I don't even consider them to be an issue. Where you live, I would be more worried. 

Charlye: Yeah, I was just in there thinking. 

Kim: Because you probably have like water moccasins. 

Charlye: We have copperheads and yeah, water moccasins and stuff like that. 

Kim: The copperheads are just like the, they just hurt.

Charlye: You know, for living where I do, I should know more about snakes. (laughs) I know literally nothing about what snake will kill me and what snake won't.

Kim: Most won't. I mean, you might get infected and you might die from that, but that's not because of the snake. Well, I guess kind of it is because it broke your skin, but you can do that stepping on a nail. 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Snakes are nails is what I'm learning today. 

Kim: Yes. Do you feel like, how do you feel like witchcraft has changed your life? 

Charlye: I think I'm a lot more open to things that I wasn't necessarily... I would fight myself about it. I fought myself about like this, like the spirit thing, for the longest time. There was actually a point in my life I was I was quite worried. I was like do I need to see like a mental health professional? I mean, yes, the answer there was yes, but for other reasons. Like but for that, like for the spirit thing because I would just see things, or I would hear things, or I don't know. Just things would happen, and I would fight it so so so so hard. And now I think it's just, it's... I'm more open to thinking. And this is also a little bit of a negative, because I'm at the point where I'll just believe anything. Honestly, I'll believe anything, you know, and...

Kim: I thought about that when you said it in one of the recent ones that you put out. 

Charlye: Yeah, that...

Kim:  I'm way more gullible. Me too. 

Charlye: Exactly. Exactly. I was trying to think of a nice way to say that. But I think I'm definitely more gullible. And I have always been a I don't like to say gullible, but I'm a naive person, I think, because I will just easily think, you know, like when I found out that, like, a lot of pop songs are not written by the person who sings them, like, there's people whose whole job it is to write the songs? That, like, blew my mind. I was like a 30 year old woman when I learned that. So, like, in that way, I think I have become a little bit more accepting, I guess. I think it's really made me think that, like, when you hear stories, when people tell you things of, like, I can do this. Four or five years ago, I might have kind of rolled my eyes and have, like, a little bit of a dicky, dickish reaction, you know what I mean? Just like, "oh, this person thinks they can talk to ghosts," you know. So I think overall it's made me more accepting and more like just open to things and not so... pessimistic, really. I think it's really changed my overall temperature towards life. And that's cool because I am, famously, I am pessimistic. So it's nice to have something to believe in, I guess?

Kim: That makes sense. 

Charlye: Yeah. Also, it's cool to, in a way that it's changed my life, it's cool to, this like, self-reliance, I guess, or being confident. It's really helped with confidence, to do something and then to see it work. And knowing like, oh, I did it. And of course, I do believe that there are outside factors, like there's spirit that helps, and there's this, that, and the other, and of course, the herbs you use can influence what you're doing, blah, blah, blah. But like, really truly to do something and then see the effect of it and be like, I did that. It's nice to feel in control of your life, you know? 

Kim: Mhmmm. Especially when you're a control freak, like me.

Charlye:  Yeah, yeah, no, I feel that, especially when, you know, on top of that, there's... How do I say it? I don't know if we're getting into any of this yet, but with the OCD on top of that, you know, and feeling very out of control in a lot of ways, or feeling like you need to have control to be safe or however you want to explain it, it's nice to have something that you're in control of outside of that realm. And it's an escape for me, a lot of the times. 

Kim: How has the podcast changed your life? 

Charlye: Oh my gosh. So much. (laughs) So much more than I thought it was gonna. It's so strange. I would say like community probably is the biggest thing. Meeting people. Meeting you, you know? And meeting Corey the other day who, you know, famous tweeter, famous WBAH tweeter person, Corey. 

Kim: Yeah, I'm going to introduce him as that now. Famous tweeter... (laughs)

Charlye: Official tweeter, Corey B. That has definitely changed things for me. And when people write in, it's... You know, we talk about this a lot on the podcast, I won't get all misty-eyed here today. But when people write in and they say things like that, you know, "I've been listening to you and you guys have helped me find..." like on one level it makes me go oh god we're not worthy, you know, but on the other hand it's like, how cool. How cool to like, have this, you know? And I think it's really made me realize the power that you... not power you have, but like the the power within responsibility. You know. Ad not to be like all superman here, what is it, spider-man? I don't know, I don't know comics, about it, but like there is a lot of responsibility that comes with that. And I think just It's made me be more serious about things in my day-to-day life. 
Because even things like sourcing your gems and stuff responsibly, you know, or you making sure that you're you're using herbs that aren't like about to be wiped out off of the face of the planet. It's made me think about that kind of stuff, and made me be responsible in that way, because there are people listening who don't know, you know, and of course, that's part of being an amateur is learning about it. But if we can learn something and then pass it on, use a platform to pass it on to other people, maybe maybe we can help in some way? Question mark? But even even in ways outside of that, it's made me be more responsible thinking about, I don't know, just like your beauty products, you know what I mean? Like makeup coming from brands that aren't crushing up bugs to give you color on your eyes, which is a thing, by the way. 

Kim: Yeah, Carmine. 

Charlye: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know, she already knows that.

Kim: We have them here, actually. We have them here, in my yard. 

Charlye: Really? Are they... so they're bugs? They're like beetles, right? 

Kim: Yeah. They grow on a prickly pear. 

Charlye: That sounds cute. Are they cute? 

Kim: I haven't seen them. 

Charlye: Oh. (both laugh) Anyway, it's just, uh, it's made me more responsible.

Kim:  I'm gonna throw in some pointless trivia.

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The places... I don't know. Sometimes I'm talking and the words are coming out of my mouth, but in the back of my head I'm going, what am I talking about? Where am I? (both laugh) Am I still on topic? 

Kim: I know that life. 

Charlye: When somebody like something in the back of your brain is going "Stop talking! STOP!" you know, and you just don't listen. (both laugh)

Kim: Yeah. Do you feel like you owe listeners anything? 

Charlye: For sure, I do. I think that we owe it to them to be authentic. I think we owe it to them to be real, you know, and to fuck up and say, hey, I screwed up, you know. And I know I keep, we've talked about, I feel like I've said this like a hundred times in this episode already, but it's important, you know, to say, hey, that thing we said back then, that's not a real thing. Or, I remember in one episode, I think it was Palo Santo, we were talking about Palo Santo, and we said something like, "Yeah, it's just endless resources, use it, use it!" you know?

Kim: No! (laughs)

Charlye:  Like, I know, I know. And then you have to make those mistakes to be like, oh, I need to do better research because people are listening to this. So, you know, when somebody is like, oh, you know, I, Palo santo, good. I'm going to buy all of it I can! you know, and I think it would be smart to maybe figure out a way to go back and like put a, put a, a foreword on it and be like, Hey, yo disclaimer. Yeah. There's some information in this that we have since learned, you know, and I think we owe people a lot. And that's also kind of scary. Because we're literally two hillbillies who got access to the internet. And it just suddenly be thrust into this position is a little is a little scary sometimes. Because we screw up like everybody else. (laughs) And some people have gotten really, really mad at us, you know, and they're not wrong. So I think we owe them the dedication to being as authentic as we can. Does that sound dumb? I hate when people say shit like that.

Kim: No!  How do you feel social media affects your practice? 

Charlye: I have to be honest with this one. I think it's super negatively. I wish I could be like, oh, it's so great. And there are great parts to it, because I have been so inspired just scrolling through, I don't know, Instagram and you see somebody like, like somebody doing these great... I don't know, anything. It could just be a photo, you know what I mean? And you're like, oh man, I'm so jacked up, I'm inspired! And of course, through social media, you find not only like friends and you keep up with their lives, but you can find new things to like explore, and new things to do, and all that. However, there is a massive dose of like imposter syndrome, I think, that comes through specifically social media, you know. And and I know that we have definitely contributed to it. And that's part of the reason our Instagram has been basically dead for a little while, we need to get back on that. But from a business standpoint. But I know that like, we've had a couple of posts that like, I've looked at before. And I've been like, you know, I know on this day, I was having the worst day I've had in a long time. I didn't do anything witchy, but I had to get a photo up, you know what I mean? So, and I know that that's the same for other people in some capacity, so to like scroll through and just be like, oh man, everyone is doing so much better than I am. Whether it be with witchcraft or just in general, just like, you know, wow, this person is so happy in their life and they're doing so perfectly. It can kind of really drain you, you know. So I think detoxes are important. And I think, again, being authentic and... it can be kind of annoying, I guess, or I've heard people say... it doesn't annoy me, but I've heard people say that it can be kind of annoying when you come on and say, like, I'm having a really bad mental health day, you know? But I think it's a, it's very important. 

Kim: I like when people say that, that's real. 

Charlye: That's exactly

Kim: We're humans.

Charlye: Exactly, you know? And, and the thing is, is I understand, I would understand where somebody wants social media to be their escape. All they want to do is scroll through and like see happy parts and pretty parts and it's like there's so much there's so much like not happy and pretty out there that like that is their time to get away and I get that. Man I get that. But when you have like, and I feel like an asshole saying this, but like when you have a platform of people who are like looking at what you post, it's really important. You know? I am, I was listening to a podcast called Sweet Boys with Garrett Watts and Andrew Siwicki. And Andrew, in the first episode, talked about having OCD. And I remember that's when it kind of clicked with me. Is because I think like some people might watch that and be like, "Oh, everyone has something these days" or whatever, you know what the attitude there is. But I remember it clicked with me and I go, oh, it's important to talk about this kind of stuff. 

Kim: Yeah. 

Charlye: Because somebody there like me watching it felt that and just felt, I don't know how to say, but validated. You know what I mean? And not like, oh, well, if he can do it, I can do it. Not that kind of thing, but just like, oh, this is a real thing that people go through and people have their own lives and struggles and stuff like that. So on that hand, it is a good thing. So I don't know. That's a tricky question. It's good and bad, but it is what you make it. And it's important to go, hey, I cannot get on Instagram today. I can't do it. You know, or I can't look. I cannot, I can't look and and see who's tweeted at us today because I can't handle it. And it's, and that's fine. You know, you just got to pick your level of of saturation of when you got to step away and be like, I'm done for a bit. 

Kim: If you don't, you'll end up like Jenna Marbles. 

Charlye: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's the perfect. 

Kim: Who I love it and I miss, but I'm glad that she was able to make this stuff for herself and I wish people would respect it. 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. And...

Kim:  Jenna, we love you.  (both laugh)

Charlye: Yeah. On that note, Jenna, please come back. (laughs)  No. No. And I think that that's just straight up burnout because I know that she, well, I mean, obviously there's a lot more than that, but I think that she had, herself, made a lot of videos in the past before talking about, like, I'm not doing okay right now, you know? But the thing is, when this is your job, you know, and obviously she's like way more, she's in a whole different league, right? But like, when social media is your job... Yeah, I'd be like, oh, we're on the same level as Rhett and Link. Yeah, sure. No. (both laugh) But when it's your job, it's hard to make that call and say, I'm going to step away. Because you can't. Like, this is what you do. So. 

Kim: How do you feel you use social media to affect others? 

Charlye: Wow. I knew this question was coming. I don't mean like, "Wow, like, I didn't know. I had no idea you're gonna ask that." (laughs) But I, um... 

Kim: You want to, control the world. Me too. 

Charlye: (laughs) Yeah. It's weird to talk about because I know that our business, social media has, we don't put a huge focus on it. And the thing is, from a business-y standpoint, you should. I don't want to say should, but it's a good thing to do. 

Kim: You need to. I'll say it, you need to. 

Charlye: Yeah, you have to do that. Yeah. And I know that for the past year, Macy and I neither were in a place to do it. Because when it comes to like, because it's not hard, it's not a hard thing to do to snap a picture, write something about it and throw it online. It's not a hard thing to do. Come up with some hashtags, you know what I mean? And it keeps things afloat, keeps things growing.

Kim: Yes it is. Don't discount it, because it is hard. 

Charlye: But like, I was going to say, No, no, no, no, no, no, I was gonna say it's, it's, it's physically not a hard thing. Like, you know, it's, it doesn't take...

Kim: Yeah, it's not physical labor.

Charlye: It's not physical labor, but it can be one of the hardest things to do. And I don't know how to explain that, but I'm glad that you said that because I'm like, I'm glad that you, you get where I'm coming from with that. It can be just so emotionally and mentally taxing  and 20, and I hate to just put everything like on 2020, but in 2020-

Kim: Fuck 2020. Put everything on it.

Charlye:  Yeah, we both just hit the point where we're like, you know what, I'm totally fine if we don't, if we don't do any of this, this year. We're gonna stop because all we can do is focus on keeping the podcast afloat. That's all we're doing. So like... (laughs) But that being said, in the past, and hopefully in the future, when we use social media, I hope it's for the better. I hope that we can be up front with, hey, look at this cool witchy thing we're doing. We don't do this every day, and the picture makes it look a lot cooler than it is, and yeah, we threw a filter on it. I hope we can be very open with like, it can be easy to fall into this, oh God, they must live in this super witchy world all the time! And it's like, no, dude, like I'm not wearing pants right now in this interview, you know, it's like we're people, you know, and... (laughs) you can cut that out if you want. 

Kim: (laughing) I knew you were a no pants person. (both laugh)

Charlye:  I like, when you said that there was not going to be video, you're like, there's not going to be video. So you don't have to do anything. I was like, oh, fuck yeah. (laughs)  But I hope that we use social media for the better. And that's going to be my goal moving forward, is to just be kind of more open about things. And it can be scary to be open about things. But seeing how it affected me to hear other people's stories when they're very open and raw and honest, that made me be like, you know what? If I can do that for even one other person, that's a win. You know, so hopefully it'll be for the good? Question mark?

Kim: Rhet and Link's deconstruction stories. 

Charlye: Yeah. 

Kim: Did you cry? I bawled. 

Charlye: You know what? I bawled more with Link's story. 

Kim: Really? 

Charlye: I feel like I really, yeah, I really resonated with him.  And I know that I think Rhett has the more, how do I say it? Maybe his was more logic focused as far as what he believed and what was logic to him. And it was very putting things together and sourcing out what he believed. But I think Link's was just very emotion driven. And I found a lot of parallels with Link's story and myself, kind of growing up in the South and having religion be like this ever-present thing that you never really felt comfortable with, as he put it. You know, Rhett was more like down, you know. He said he was the person who would like be evangelical to people, you know. He would be, he said, I would talk to people who didn't believe and they would walk away going "Well, maybe." You know.

Kim: Because he's a one.

Charlye: Right. Is that is that how that goes? (laughs) You know, we were...

Kim: That's what I think, because they have to be the best. He has to be the best at evangelizing. Is that how you say that word?

Charlye:  Evelagize. Yeah, you're right We were gonna take ours this weekend and we totally, or when we were at the hotel, We were gonna take ours and we totally forgot. So we're probably gonna do it tomorrow, but she's excited to learn what that means. Or what are you?

Kim: Six. with a five wing.

Charlye: Six, okay. What? oh god okay there's so many terms to learn. No I think I just, I just you know, listening to Rhett and Link's stories definitely kind of felt more emotional about Link's side. Because a lot of his came from the treatment of people, like LGBT people, you know? And I really, really felt like that. And being in that space myself, seeing someone who kind of confronted that, was, God, that moved me, and I did bawl. I bawled a little bit, I'm not going to lie. 

Kim: For me, it was... It was more seeing how upset... he was about what he did. 

Charlye: Yeah. 

Kim: I don't ever say that I'm an empath or whatever, but. I don't know. I get really uncomfortable and emotionally affected when other people have strong emotions around me. 

Charlye: Yeah. Yeah.

Kim: And like Rhett I'm a huge crier.

Charlye:  Sure. (laughs)

Kim: If he ever got wind of that I'm sure he'd love it. Not that I think I'm important in any way but yeah. I Just, just hearing them talk about how their wives were upset and they had to give up this community and having that doubt, I understand that.

Charlye: Yeah, for sure.

Kim:  It made me sad for them, that they had to go through it. I don't want anybody to go through that. 

Charlye: Yeah. And I don't want someone to go through that, but at the same time, I think it might be important. Well, not everyone to go through that. I'm not telling anybody how to live their lives, but I think it's important to always examine what we believe, you know, and why, and is it just because I was raised this way? Is it just because everyone that surrounds me is this, you know, and to just sort of develop your own, you know. Thoughts and feelings on what you believe and why. And that can be a very painful process. 

Kim: That's what I meant, the pain. I don't want people to go through pain. 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I never... Yeah, that sucks. I never, I wish, I wish things like... being a human is so complicated. I wish things would just be apparent to us. You know, and it'd just be like, oh, I feel this way. And that was an easy conclusion to come to. And it never is. 

Kim: What brings you the most joy in this whole thing? 

Charlye: The community. Seeing people, and I mean just... if it's on Discord, or if it's like getting together for Pagan Pop-Ups, and just seeing people kind of come together and be in that space that I was once in. You know, of feeling alone and not having anybody, or feeling like You had to do things in a certain way. And then just getting to meet this whole big ass group of people who are just like no, come here! Give me a hug! Be one of us! You know, that's, that makes me happy. That makes me really really really happy. And getting to know everybody's stories, and like that where they came from, you know, as far as physically, sure, but like also like where their practice came from and stuff like that. That brings me a lot, a lot, a lot of joy. Also, just on a personal level, I think having the relationship that I have with my, I don't know, spirit team, ancestors, I don't know what you want to say, but having the relationship there and having it grow and being able to pick certain people out now that I couldn't before, and everyone has like kind of their own vibe. That makes me happy too. In a way that like it also helps me confront this fear of like what happens when we die kind of thing. To just, I don't know, to just believe in something brings me joy. And yeah. Sorry, if that's cheesy, I love the community. I love you guys.

Kim: Have you ever passed out? Like fainted?

Charlye: No, this is... Well. No. Yes. Yes. I have I passed out because my one, like my number one fear is heights. I that's my thing. That's like my irrational, I can't do it. I get sick thinking about it. If I watch a movie and somebody's like on top of a building, I can't look at it. Like it's, that's, and I went up to the top of a very tall at Six Flags here. There's this very tall tower and I just went to it and it has a floor, you know that that kind of mesh flooring? It's metal covered in rubber. You know what I mean? 

Kim: Yes.

Charlye:  has that and I, I looked down and the last thing I remember is looking down and then coming to. Like an employee had, like an employee had like put me against the wall and he was like in my face, and he's like, are you are you okay? Are you okay? You fell! So I guess technically I have, but that's the only time.

Kim: Did you have any memory of while you were unconscious? Or do you have?

Charlye:  No, not at all. Not at all. Is that a thing? 

Kim: Well, I've been thinking about it lately. I don't know why. Because part of my OCD thing is death. I obsess about death constantly. 

Charlye: Yeah.

Kim: Which is really not comfortable.

Charlye: No. It's awful. 

Kim:  I realized that I constant, consistently pass out a lot.

Charlye: Really? 

Kim: Because I get heat exhaustion constantly.

Charlye:  Yeah. Yeah.

Kim: And if, when I get really anxious, I guess like your brain is like Nope. Being up there.

Charlye:  Your brain is like Nope. 

Kim: I'm dipping out. Bye. 

Charlye: Yeah. Yeah. 

Kim: I I consistently have, I'm going to call, I don't think they're dreams, but I'm going to call them dreams while I'm under. I clearly remember coming out of when I wake up from passing out, when I gained consciousness because I wasn't asleep.

Charlye: Oh, tell me!

Kim: But, and like during surgery, when you come out of that, when I come out of that.

Charlye:  Oh, okay. I was going to say I thought that, you know, like those people who stay awake during their surgery and they can feel everything. 

Kim: Oh, Jesus. That's a no. 

Charlye: Oh, God. I thought you were going to say that you've had experience. 

Kim: That's horrifying. Oh, my God. No.

Charlye: (laughs) Okay. 

Kim: But I kind of wonder if that's, it might just be me trying to comfort myself that death is coming, but maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's where that is. 

Charlye: Yeah, that space?

Kim: Yeah. 

Charlye: Yeah. I... that is something that I share, I think, with you, is I really, I have a hard time with death. As surrounded in it as I like to be. Because I think I, it's weird. I'm not afraid of death, because it's you know, a part that happens, it's gonna happen. But I get I get freaked out about the what happens then, what happens next. 

Kim: Yeah, where does my consciousness go? I am cool! Yeah I have all these memories. That... have you see Blade Runner?

Charlye: A very long time ago.

Kim:  Rutger Hauer's speech about tears, like tears in rain? All those memories will be gone like tears in rain?

Charlye: Yeah.

Kim:  It's gonna make me cry.

Charlye: See, and that's why I have kind of- 

Kim: That is my fear.

Charlye: Is to just disappear. Yeah. 

Kim: Yeah. 

Charlye: Well, see, that's part of the reason that, I don't want to say I have a problem with reincarnation, but it makes me sad to think that if, because I think I, I think I, that's kind of what I lean towards is reincarnation, and that being a thing. But if I die and I go on and I'm reborn as somebody else, I'm not going to remember Charlye, you know what I mean? And I know that this life is building towards something, that like, that my soul is building towards, and as is all my other lives and as all my next lives will be, like I get it, it's a goal, it's a experiencing it, blah blah blah blah blah. But like I like Charlye, you know? Like I like Charlye's favorite music and I like Charlye's favorite foods, you know? and-

Kim: Yeah!

Charlye: -my next person, whoever I am then, Ralph or whatever, like they're not gonna be Charlye, you know? And, and that's like so how, that's the kind of stuff I'll get in my head about ,and just think about for hours on end.

Kim: Something cool that you witnessed that only you saw.

Charlye: Yeah. It'll be gone.

Kim: It'll be gone. I hate it. It's gonna make me cry.

Charlye: Like when Macy saw that hummingbird take a shit, you know? 

Kim: Yeah, exactly that. (both laugh) 

Charlye: But hopefully not, you know, we don't know. We'll see, I guess. That's the weird beauty in it, is that no matter how much anyone believes anything, no matter how certain they are about what's going to happen, like nobody knows. Nobody. 

Kim: I hate it.

Charlye: Not even people who have like been technically dead and they are like oh I saw this, I saw that, it's like...

Kim: Yeah.

Charlye: ... yeah but you're back now so you, you don't really know. You know?

Kim:  Yeah.

Charlye: It's kind of, it's a little cool to me that there's like one last mystery.

Kim: Maybe we're all in a video game.

Charlye:  I am so comfortable with that idea. I know that freaks people out but I am so comfortable with that idea. I would prefer- 

Kim: We're all NPCs. We're not even in the main thing. We're all NPCs. 

Charlye: That's fine with me. (both laugh) That's fine with me. Because you know what, when I play Sims, it's never the NPCs that I'm torturing. You know, it's the main people. So they just get to exist. I'm fine with that. 

Kim: What's been the most surprising thing that you've found in this, in the podcast and in witchcraft?

Charlye:  I think surprising through the podcast is how many people are secret, secret witches. You know that you, when you start out you feel very alone. At least I did. And me and Macy both did, even having each other. We still felt very alone. But then you find out there's 20 witches on your block, you know, like, they're like, you know, you're, you have them around you. And I still, I still think we need some, like, symbol or something to, like, let other people, like, if you know, you know, like the purple door, you know, because that's, that's been a very surprising thing for me is how many people are, and I guess in that same vein, how many things people do today, even if they're not witchy or even if they're not in this space, how many things people do come from that? You know, specifically? Like putting pumpkins by your front door during autumn. 

Kim: Birthday candles. 

Charlye: Birthday candles!

Kim:  I love the birthday candle one. 

Charlye: Exactly, you know, and just and especially Southern people. And I know in my, I can only kind of think or talk about like my family lineage because we come from like the Appalachian area and there's that whole thing. And then of course that kind of came from like the Celtic area so like, that that kind of system has kind of trickled down to us. And little things that we do like...

Kim: Salt over the shoulder.

Charlye: Yeah exactly, exactly! I was trying to think of an example, but it's all so ingrained in me that it's like, it's normal practice, so I can't even think. But yeah, salt over the shoulder, perfect example. Or if your lower back hurts, you're going to have a visitor. You know what I mean? Shit like that. 

Kim: Oh, your palm itches. 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or if the wind is coming in from the east, it tells you when to seed your plants, or not to seed your plants and stuff like that, that I would have never been like "Oh, that's witchcraft." Like I'm now like kind of giving family members the side eye about. I'm like do you know where that comes from? You know. You'll, and especially here in Texas, I don't know. I don't know what it is, but you'll go to someone's house, and they will have decorated with brooms everywhere. Cinnamon brooms, pretty brooms, like little tiny brooms, and you're looking at them and you're like you know, if I even said the W word to you, you would freak out, but here you are with 15 goddamn brooms in your house. (laughs) 

Kim: Now are you out to your family? 

Charlye: Not fully actually, weirdly enough. (both laugh) No I'm not fully and completely out to my family. There is a whole half, a whole side of my family that knows but they don't know, you know? I guess we don't really talk about it. 

Kim: They don't talk about it because they don't want to know because that'll be a kind of uncomfortable conversation.

Charlye:  It's an uncomfortable conversation. The thing I would like to say though is I'm so hashtag blessed that my family is my family, because they're so accepting, you know, even that side of the family that I think wouldn't necessarily be super chill with a lot of it. They still, they like talk about it. They'll be like, so how's your podcast going? Or I, you know, somebody in particular was like, you know, I had a friend that was, I had a Wiccan friend once, you know, and like...

Kim: I know her! (both laugh)

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wouldn't you know it. But it's a, it's cool, you know, it's not necessarily something that I like bust the door down and I'm like, guess what? We're going to talk about witchcraft! You know what I mean? But they do the same for me. (both laugh) That's how I'm gonna enter rooms from now on. But they do the same for me. They don't necessarily, you know, say, look, I'm going to sit you down and tell you why this is evil and bad, you know. And it's so I would say, yeah, a lot of people know, but at the same time I'm not sure they know the extent. I think they know that there is a podcast, and that we talk about... you know, herby things. But I don't know if I were to walk up to someone and be like, Hey, guess what I am, I identify as a witch. I can't believe, I think that that might be the first time that someone is like truly confronting it in that way. And it's so weird to have a podcast where you talk about shit like this and to know that there are people you're very close with that don't really know what's up. (laughs)

Kim: Yeah. 

Charlye: But it's okay. You know what I mean? I don't think that it's... (sighs) For me. I'm not talking about everybody. For me, it's not important for me to be out to everybody. You know? I don't I don't need to be. I'm out to the people that I'm probably the most close with, you know? And the people who might be affected when they walk into a room and see me laying on the floor With just cards on my eyes or whatever, you know? (both laugh) The amount of times that like like Clark has walked into the room not said a word but he just has gone wide-eyed and slowly backed out... happens all the time man.

Kim: Now you and I both have diagnoses of OCD.

Charlye: Hey, we sure do, don't we? (both laugh) 

Kim: How do you feel like it affects your craft? 

Charlye: In a strange way. So first of all, and this is, I'm not going to get on my OCD like soapbox. (laughs)

Kim: Get on it, dude. Jump up there. 

Charlye: I just want to say, if you're not familiar. 

Kim: I have one too. 

Charlye: I bet they're very similar. I just want to say that...

Kim:  It has nothing to do with your sharpies or your fricking socks.

Charlye:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. The tiles that face different directions, they don't bother us. God, it's not...

Kim: But they do. But the same way they bother everybody else. And it's not about OCD.

Charlye: Exactly. That's, that's... perfectionism is not OCD or being irked is not OCD is my main point. It's portrayed in a way that a lot of people... have you ever opened up to somebody about OCD and they go like, they're like, oh yeah, me too, everybody's got a little of that. And you go, no, no. 

Kim: YEP. 

Charlye:  It's very misunderstood. I just want to start from a place of that. And I plan on having a whole episode about it one day where I can just rant about it. However, how it affects my craft is me personally, I have, I'm hit pretty hard with the intrusive thoughts. And intrusive thoughts to anybody who, hey look, if you don't know what it is, you just thank your lucky stars, okay, first of all. But also, it's just those, and everyone has had them at some point in their life, you know, just because, you know, not only certain people can have intrusive thoughts or whatever, but like, you know, when you just, you just think something you wish you didn't? And you didn't really have any control. But then you sit there and you go, is that me? Is that who I am? Did I really just think about doing that or whatever? You know, so I have a lot of that. So to me, sometimes divination, or other things where you need to... muster intention to do something, it can get it, can affect that very hard. Because I'm a big believer that intention is everything. And if I'm sitting here trying to do a thing, trying to push my energy into something, but there is something in the back of my head that's telling me, "This spell you're doing is going to kill somebody, it's going to kill somebody, it's going to kill somebody." You know what I mean? Then I start to think, okay, well, is that the truth now? like am I.. if my this love spell...

Kim: That's your intent now. You said it and now it's gonna happen.

Charlye: Yeah. Yeah, exactly this love spell that I'm trying to just put into my bottle of shampoo so I can love myself every time I shampoo my hair, like is that gonna like slowly kill me?

Kim: It's gonna kill your husband. 

Charlye: Exactly! Exactly!! Or somebody's gonna smell it, like smell my shampoo, and then they're gonna like go home and die.

Kim: They'll be obsessed with you and then somehow die.

Charlye:  Yeah yeah yeah, Die because they love me so much. No.

Kim: Yep.

Charlye:  That that is how it affects me is it affects my intention a lot of the time. Or how I how I feel about my intention. And I've had to learn that if I'm having if I'm having a particularly, I don't know how to put it  it... a particularly bad day with it. I have to, I can't, I won't do it. You know, even if I have everything that I need and I've made time to do this ritual or this spell and even if it's like the big days, like it's a full moon and I have a thing I want to do, but I am, I can't get out of that space, I won't do it. And it sucks, but it's that's just like a little modification I've had to make in my craft, you know. And it also makes me think sometimes when I'm divining or what I'm trying to devine, it makes it hard to say what is message from spirit, and what is my own-ass brain trying to tell me? Because I one time I...

Kim: Your own ass brain? (laughs)

Charlye: My own ass brain. If my brain was anything it's just a big ass. I  have before pulled cards that, or whatever, pulled whatever, thrown it, cast lots, you know, in some way, and and it, and it fucking it be, have a million meanings but the one I focus on is like this can also indicate health problems, and that's what I latch on to because I... OCD comes in many forms. You can fluctuate through all the forms throughout your lifetime. I currently, that might, main stressor is called contamination OCD. And that's exactly what it sounds like. And I think it's what a lot of people think of of people with hand washing and the...

Kim: As Good As It Gets. That guy.

Charlye: I'm trying to remember. I'm trying. 

Kim Did you see that? 

Charlye: I know I have but I.. 

Kim: Oh shit. What's his name? 

Charlye I must have blocked it out.

Kim: It was the guy in East, Witches of Eastwick. That guy. Here's Johnny.

Charlye: John...

Kim: Everybody knows who I'm talking about. It's not John.

Charlye: What's his fuckin name... Jack Nicholson!

Kim: Yes! (both laugh) He was in as good as it gets and he had that little dog, and he was like us.

Charlye:  Okay, woof. But to answer your question, that is how it affects my practice. 

Kim: Do you think it does anything good? Because mine does. 

Charlye: Yeah? 

Kim: Because since I have to be in control of everything and double check everything and go back and find every angle that could have fucked up- it fucks up less. (laughs) 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're correct. Yeah, I would say that that's probably a plus in the obsessing over a certain aspect of something, you know, that it's going to then... Iif it's okay to me, it's going to be okay to everybody else. (laughs)

Kim: Exactly. And that's why your editing thing, versus someone else's editing thing...

Charlye:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

Kim: It's a good thing. 

Charlye: And the other way that I think it's good is, is it just... This is a weird thing to say, because if I didn't have it, I don't know if I would necessarily be this way, but I very much consider myself a mental health activist. And I think it's important to speak very plainly about mental health, and conditions, and diagnoses, and medical terms, and shit like that. I think it's very important, you know. And I would say, I guess if I had not developed this or was born with it, I don't know, question mark? Yeah, that I might not be. I think as many people as possible, if you have a platform, I think it's important to talk about. Especially things that you have experience with. You know, this is what I have experience with in my life, and as much as I wish I didn't, and as much as I hate it a lot of the times, again, it's that thing, if somebody listens to it and goes, oh, hey, and it makes them feel any kind of way, then I'm like, hey, it's done a good thing. But um... your OCD is sort of like your... (laughs) what did they say in Dexter? It's like your dark passenger, you know. It's always there.

Kim:  Hmm. 

Charlye: You know. And you don't, you don't have to like it, you don't have to love it, but it's a part of you and it's there. And you do what you can, you know? KIm: Use what you can. 

Charlye: I've heard people say before, they say, this is why I love my depression. And they've given all these reasons of like, it's so easy to fall into this hole of like, I hate this. And I do. Like I have whole days where I will just cry and I'll just be like... As somebody who doesn't necessarily believe in like the, let's call it like the Christian God, I will very much just be like, God, why me? Why did, why? You know, why is this the way it is? And, you know, it's like, it's so hard. I can't. I can't take it. And it's easy to fall into that place of hating it, and therefore kind of like hating that part of yourself. And that's a dark hole to fall into. You know. So I kind of think of it, I try to think of it as like the annoying friend, you know? You don't always love the things they do. You don't always love being around them, but they're there. And they're a part of your life, so deal with it, you know? 

Kim: What makes you angry and what do you love about the witch community? 

Charlye: Oh boy, let me do my spiel. We've talked about it a lot. (both laugh) I still don't have the correct words, I think, to put it into it. But I'll start with what makes me angry, because why not? I very much wish that, and this isn't anything, this isn't anything that has a following and a loyalty to it. There's so much gatekeeping. And here's the thing. There's a difference between saying, hey, this is a closed practice. That is not gatekeeping, right? That's a closed practice. And that's not necessarily for you, right? But I, what I'm talking about is like, "Well, when you do a candle spell, you have to do it this way. You have to rub the oil on from top to bottom." You know what I mean? Like...

Kim: The buying the tarot deck versus being gifted the tarot deck.

Charlye: Right. The buying of the tarot deck. Exactly. These little rules that like, sure, I'm going to not lie. In the beginning, it was kind of fun to follow these little, like I had, like my mom bought me a tarot deck and I was like, "Oh, I can use a tarot deck now because someone bought it for me!" But now it's like, I think a lot about people who don't have someone to do that for them, you know? Like, we've been contacted before by kids, you know, basically like a 14 year old kid, and they're like, hey, I secretly listen to your show, and I'm in, you know, I have books and stuff, but I have to like hide them amongst my school books, and like if I ever was found out, like, I don't know if I would be welcome, basically. 

Kim: I'm your mom now, fourteen year old. That's why they call me what they call me. I'm your mom now, you can come here. 

Charlye: You know, it's funny, when we were out with Corey, he just said, oh, Mama Kim? I was like, yes, yes, it's catching on! (both laugh) However if that person was to truly kind of go with all of these rules and limitations of you know, you've got to do that this way you know. If they only have white candles, well I can't do it I can't do a prosperity spell cuz I don't have a green candle you know?

Kim:  I guess you're poor forever, kid.

Charlye: Yeah yeah! Sorry, you know? That's, you can't afford that green candle? Sorry, you're gonna stay that way. But like that that's one, that's one end of it. But to me the bigger problem is, I like to use witchtok on tiktok as as an example because I think a lot of people know what i'm talking about. Because there, there are some creators who do like witchy tiktoks that are amazing. They tell you so much stuff and they're so like open with what they have learned.  But if you go to the comm- let me just say, don't go to the comments first of all. Please don't. You'll die if you read these comments. 

Kim: Warning!

Charlye: Warning, if you read the comments that you will die. But just the anger, the anger that people feel okay with online is ridiculous to me. You know, I- somebody once said animosity breeds... oh my god, what is it? 

Kim: Something else bad. Something bad. 

Charlye: Anonymity breeds animosity. Sorry, excuse me. That's what, anonymity breeds animosity. And that is so true. I can't imagine people saying the things that I see them say to these young baby witches, if you will.

Kim: Exactly!

Charlye: Stuff you would never say that to someone's face. And going to someone and saying, Hey, I noticed that you used this term, or I noticed that you're using this particular herb, and I happen to know that it's endangered, or you're doing something in some way that I feel like I have a little knowledge on. And maybe I could pass it on to you. And saying it to them plainly and just saying it as it is is one thing...

Kim: Shittily?

Charlye: But going to that person being like "You clearly haven't done your research. I wish all these fucking stupid people would quit, you do it because it's so trendy to be a witch right now," And it's like you know what? Yeah, it is cool. Who cares, you know? it was 20...

Kim:  It's good for all of us, you idiot!

Charlye: Exactly! You know? And it wasn't super trendy for a long time, but it's been trendy before and it will be trendy again. You know, things are cyclical like that, you know? Like that's just how it works. And you know, I get mad when I people see people saying like, "Oh well, there's more to it than just aesthetics. You're just, you just like it because of the aesthetics." It's like, well yeah, you know what? A, I think we all kind of like the aesthetic of what we do. You know what I mean? That's part of it. 

Kim: Yeah, we're allowed...

Charlye: Yeah, I'm allowed to like the things that I like, you know, my altar.... I'm not going to decorate it with ugly shit because I, you know, my altar is for my ancestors, you know, and I'm not going to give them something that I look at and go "Ew", you know, like I want it to be pretty, you know, so therefore I like it. So yeah, so whatever. And you also never know, I'm ranting a little bit, excuse me. You also never know what is going on in somebody's life. You know, you don't know how much they know. You don't know that this person that you look at and you go, oh, they're just in it for the aesthetic, they just think it's trendy. Maybe they're learning, you know? Like, maybe they're like exploring this, and trying to be a part of it. And like nobody, nobody wants to be shut out at the door, you know what I mean? And if you are, I want to be given a reason, you know. There are very few people who are born into this and have a whole family to like raise them up and teach them, you know. So it's not, it's just not fair.

 Nobody likes to be told that they're doing something wrong just because. Just because you're stupid, you know, that's the main thing to me. It's like... nobody's fucking up on purpose. You know what I mean? And if they are, they're an asshole. But nobody goes into something going, "You know what, I'm gonna do this wrong on purpose and I'm gonna steal things from cultures that aren't mine. I'm gonna do this on purpose!" you know what I mean? And it's like, you're never gonna know how to do it right if they just leave because people yelled at you and I've seen that a lot like on other Facebook groups and sometimes, very seldomly, thank you very much, but very seldomly, in our own Facebook group sometimes there will be these hot outbreaks, you know, where people really get, they get hot. and you're a mod over there, thank you for your service. But it's like I have before seen people just leave because of the way people treated them, you know? And again, I cannot... 

Kim: What good does that do? 

Charlye: Nothing. Nobody has ever had their mind changed by being yelled at. Tell me one time that someone has yelled at you and belittled you and berated you and you changed your mind and went, you know what, I think you're right. Never. Probably. Unless... 

Kim: They learn nothing and they're still going to go do what they're going to do. You just don't have any control over it and you could have changed it. 

Charlye: Exactly. And that's why when I see the threads where somebody says something and then there's a somebody jumps in and they say, hey, you know, just wanted to point this out that whatever it is, you know what I mean? Whatever they think they're just sharing their knowledge about and they're being very... 

Kim: It's always smudging. It's always smudging. 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where I was going. It's always smudging. (both laugh) I didn't know if that was, yeah, but it is always, you know, somebody, because that's I, that's what I called smoke cleansing in the beginning.

Kim: Me too. 

Charlye:  I mean I called it smuding. And I remember even before before like the whole witchcraft thing was a thing, I heard someone else say it. And For years before the witch thing was a thing I was like, oh like if you take some sage and you do this It's called, you know, whatever. And not a lot of people know that. And it's just it's that thing where it's like, you know if you... if you're really knowledgeable about like some comic book and then somebody like walks in and they're like I like Batman, and you're like, oh really you like Batman? what tell me his whole backstory, you know, or you know I like rap music. You're like, okay, tell me your top three favorite artists. Just don't be that way, you know, come on.

Kim:  Do you like Batman or you do like the Dark Knight? 

Charlye: Right? So it's like just, hey, everyone take a breath, touch grass, you know, we're going to be okay, you know, be nice to people. Oh, excuse me. I hope that makes sense when all is said and done. 

Kim: How long do you think you want to do the podcast? And what might make you stop doing it? 

Charlye: Forever. No. 

Kim: Good, good, yes. 

Charlye: (laughs) This is a true, this is a true. 

Kim: No, yes, yes you will. 

Charlye: Can you imagine if we just keep going? This is a cool question to me because it's, it excites me in a weird way because, nothing lasts forever, you know, nothing is going to last forever. And even if we did continue, like I hate to be dark about it, but like one of us is eventually gonna die, you know? And it's like, it will one day end for some reason, you know? And the thing is, is I don't think I ever want the end of WBAH to be final. I don't think we're ever gonna just disappear. Hopefully, God, I don't know, we might, you know, get canceled or something and then go away. But like, I don't ever- 

Kim: It's gonna be like My So-Called Life and I'm going to want to kill you. 

Charlye: Oh God, Jesus. Well, now you've spoken it into existence. Thank you. 

Kim: Great, great. Way to go, me.

Charlye:  I'm going to call Macy and be like, guess what Kim manifested? Shit.

Kim: Oh, shit.

Charlye: But I want to do it always. There's some truth in me joking and being like, we're always going to be here. But I want to evolve, you know? And one day that might be, that might include not having a podcast aspect anymore. I don't really see why it wouldn't. I'm sure even if we change, we can still find something to talk about. But, but like, you know, like you were saying, like the video aspect of it, like doing YouTube, like maybe we'll grow and evolve. And I have ideas for, we have ideas for things that we want to create, you know, and have like maybe like a little store and I know that, I know that Macy, a long time ago, and I'm going to share something that she's told me so I hope she's chill with it, but she has to be. But she said that she had a, I don't, I don't know if I feel comfortable saying vision, but she had a...

Kim: That's what it is.

Charlye: I guess. Yeah. 

Kim: Oh, unless you mean she like, like from someone else put it into her head. 

Charlye: Oh, no. 

Kim: Here, have a vision. 

Charlye: Somebody inceptioned her. No, she said that she, at one point she saw, she said it was like an older version of me and her. And we were just like it, like we were just our full... God, I don't know how to say this and not sound stupid but we were like our full authentic selves you know and we had just been doing this for a while and she said we were in some kind of store. And we were like kind of bustling around and like setting chairs up and like getting ready to like I guess have a class or... I don't know she's she's not like fully there on what it was either. She said but we were just like we were content and we were happy and we had been doing this, whether it be podcast or YouTube or like, whatever, we had been doing this for a very long time. Like we were going gray, you know? So like I'm excited about that you know. And what that could mean, and I'm like hey dude maybe we'll have like a fucking shop one day. That'll be cool.

Kim:  I have those.

Charlye: Do you??

Kim: That's how I knew where I was going, like sometimes I know where we're gonna move.

Charlye: That is, that, see to me you were talking about how like you, you can't, the idea of like talking to spirit, like ghosts? Just doesn't, like to that, that is mine. That is so fascinating to me, that's, that, I don't mean crazy, but like, it's crazy! What a blessing! 

Kim: Yeah, things pop into your head. 

Charlye: Oh, God. (laughs)

Kim: Or you just know stuff. 

Charlye: Has it ever been, like, scary? Is it bad stuff? 

Kim: It's been bad. 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah. God, ooh. 

Kim: Well, speaking of the visions, what, can you tell me anything that is coming up for the podcast? 

Charlye: Hmm. I know that we are... (Kim bursts into laughter)

Kim: Oh, I thought you were going to say no. 

Charlye: Hmm. No. Dead stop. (Kim laughs) Just don't say anything else the rest of the whole time.Sorry. 

Kim: Next question. 

Charlye: Nope. No, we've got a few things. We've got a couple of irons in fires. We want to start the experience stuff up again. I know that we are, here very quickly, we're going to go to a local blueberry farm and pick some blueberries and make a whole little video. I think it's going to be our first actual video that we try to make, so we'll see how that goes. And I hope it sticks. I would love to put something out, like at least every two weeks or something. We'll just have a vlog-style video that we can throw up on YouTube and just see how that evolves. But we are having our natal charts read very soon. 

Kim: Oh, yay!

Charlye: And that's going to be a whole special here in a couple of weeks where with someone who knows their shit, like is a true expert in it, and it's not just us speculating. But we've given her our information and she's looked us up and she's gonna walk us through it and tell us every every little bit, and how we interact with each other, and then we're gonna ask questions. It's gonna be a- it's it's probably gonna be two episodes long, so I'm excited for it.

Kim: Cool. Now, I didn't put this on the list of questions because I forgot, but I, oh, I haven't, if you've listened to any other episodes, I don't know if you have, but if you have, you heard me ask this and I know you had to at least ponder it for a fraction of a second. Who are three people who have influenced your practice? 

Charlye: Yeah yeah yeah. (both laugh) And I was worried about that one because I'm like, oh god! I start to panic. Well, first of all, Macy, for sure. Macy, I think, is the first person who comes to mind just because she still is. We're influencing each other every day. And it's hard not to. Like we've become so close in a weird way, because we've always been close, but now we're business close, you know, and...

Kim:  I love that for you guys.

Charlye:  Yeah, I do, too. And we were actually talking about it when we got together the other day. Macy's said something to me one time, I was having a really, really, really, really hard, dark time with, like my OCD just taking over my life. And I canceled a couple of our recordings and I think I was being very what what people on the outside looking in would call flaky.  And I remember I just finally like opened up to her about it and she said some stuff to me She was like, you know, she said we've always been like sisters pretty much, you know, and and now more than ever, really. She's like, but now we've got this like business part together, she said. So in a lot of ways, she's like, you and I are each other's confident, confidants, more than anybody else. Like we're each other's biggest confidants, you know. And that like really struck me when she said that. And I was like, that's fucking true, my guy. And it, it's so strange to just kind of watch this develop between us. Because yeah, she's always been somebody that I could talk to about anything, really, truly, to probably too much things I could talk to her about and she would be like, Oh, yeah, I understand. But now there's this aspect of like, we, we have to hold each other up. We have to, we have to keep going for the sake of the other one, you know, and she was like, if you're like going through it, she's like, tell me because A, I love you and I want to know, and but B, also so we can have a business. (laughs) But like in the most like loving way, you know, possible. So it's helped me open up to somebody like I feel in a way that I've never done before, strangely, you know. Not, and not even necessarily with like someone that you feel like, you know, like I tell Clark stuff, but I don't, I don't go super deep into like the witchy side of it. You know what I mean? 

Kim: Yeah.

Charlye:  I more talk to him about like mental health stuff, right? But like with Macy, it's both. And it's constant. She does the same, you know, I like to think that she tells me stuff, too. I think that she does. However, outside of Mace, my mother would be massive, massive presence. Such A Witch. Because, again, she is such a witch and never identified as one. I think she does now, though, since the podcast. (laughs) I think that's a label she's taken and slapped on herself and I love it. But just growing up surrounded by things like, that I don't think other people were surrounded by. Just bottles and bottles and bottles of different essential oils, and like growing your own herbs, and she had books on like healing, how to heal like through hands and energetic healing, (laughs) and just shit that I don't think other people had. And I remember that she told me once, she was like, okay, your left hand draws energy and your right hand pushes energy. And I've always, I've always kept that in the back of my mind. And it's still how I operate on a large level. And she really just set me up to believe anything metaphysical. So like, through my whole life, when someone said something, I would be like, Oh, I think my mom knows about that, you know. And slowly I've just been like my mom... Wait, hold on. Is my mom the biggest witch I know? (both laugh) So I would say her for sure. And then, also... it's hard to, it's hard to like go to just three, because I want to say my dad as well. 

Kim: Then say your dad. 

Charlye: Can I lump my parents in as a number two? 

Kim: Yes. (laughs)

Charlye: I'll just do that and cheat a little bit. My dad too for sure because my dad is definitely a... He's more on the... like whereas my mom is a physical witch. Like she's very much hands on the earth, oils, herbs, this kind of stuff. My dad has the whimsy and the the love of magic, you know, and and the love of... he's the one who instilled my love of fantasy in any way, you know. Lord of the Rings, video games, whatever, you know. He's the one that encouraged...

Kim: Yeah. 

Charlye: We would go out and play in the woods you know and I think I very much developed a love for being outside and a love for being in the woods through my dad. And you know, he would, he would say things like, I'm calling on the elements, you know. But it, but it like planted that seed, you know, and it also made me feel really comfortable in saying, Hey, this is, I'm doing a podcast about this shit, you know, and this is what I am now, you know, and, and the fact that when I said that to him, and I was kind of talking to my mom about it and I was very, very surface level saying like, okay, well, here's what a Wiccan is, here's what a witch is, here's what a pagan is, and here's like the Venn diagram of all of that information. It's like my dad was like, he would chime in and say things every once in a while that I didn't know he knew, you know? And to kind of realize that there's this knowledge that was there, that we just never touched on, because we never talked about it. And now we and now we do, you know, that's pretty cool. And then lastly, I gotta say my grandma on my dad's side, the one that I share with Macy. Because for a lot of the same reasons. She was always into crafting things. And a lot of that kind of, "Is this witchcraft?" Like Appalachian folk kind of stuff, I feel like would come from her. And of course, she's into the genealogy. You give this woman your name. Not even your last name, you just give her your first initial and she'll come back in like 12 hours and she'll know every ancestor you've ever had. She's amazing at it. And there's something very cool about that to me, to just kind of, you know, learn what my ancestors that I talk to on a daily basis, you know, through spirit and whatnot, like what they believed and what they practiced and what they did. And to me that, there's a lot of witchy, there's a lot of witchiness in like knowing my ancestors. And I understand that it's not like that for everybody because not everybody works with ancestors, you know, but I do. And, and because she's so good at that, and because I can sit down and... As an adult, I never really appreciated it as a child, but as an adult, to sit down and listen to her talk about, oh, so and so grew up here, and then they came to Texas in you know, 17 whatever, or whatever. And I could just listen to her talk about that for days and days and days and days and I for some reason I just really connected with ancestor through my grandmother. And she's of course also the one that relayed the story of Mamaw Minnie down to us. And so so for those reasons, that's why I cheated and picked four people. (laughs)

Kim: That's so neat. 

Charlye: Yeah she's a she's a trip she is a trip in the best way I just don't know how somebody can remember that many people, and that many names, and their life stories, and, and... She's really somebody who made me interested in Individual stories of humans, you know. Like we've talked on spooky sodes before about how  you hear about all these crazy things that happen, but if you zoom in to a state, to a town, to a person, everyone's story is interesting.

Kim: Yeah!

Charlye: Everyone's story is unique. There is no such thing, I don't think there is a such thing as a boring person.

Kim: That's why this podcast exists.

Charlye:  You know? And to just, I don't know. I could listen to peoples' story, I'm ranting and I apologize, but I could just listen to people tell their life stories. I could just listen to that forever and still be fascinated. 

Kim: Where in Appalachia are your people from? 

Charlye: I'm not sure. I actually need to, I actually probably need to. 

Kim: We're cousins. Maybe we're cousings!

Charlye: Maybe so, for real. Should we do like an ancestry test? Like we need to do the swabs and see if we've got the green leaf or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised. I think, you know, I'm not sure. I want to say like all over in like the lower, like the lower part of the range. Southern Appalachia. 

Kim: Coastal?

Charlye: I don't think coastal. I think it was more like West. From what, from recent, from recent ancestry that I've looked into, it was like, um, Carolinas, maybe? Is that part of it? I don't know. I'm really not as educated as I should be. I just know from that area. (laughs) I should call my grandma. 

Kim: Honestly, me neither, because I know Virginia, probably West Virginia, maybe Tennessee. 

Charlye: I want to say Virginia. I want to really, really say Virginia. And that's like the person that's like the last person that before they came over to Texas is like before Texas, it was Virginia.

Kim: That's where I'm from! 

Charlye: See, and that's the thing. That's why I was wary of saying that, because I don't want to feel like I'm just saying that because I know that about you and I'm trying to make us cousins so hard. But I think so. 

Kim: Oh, we just are. 

Charlye: Thank you. Hee hee!

Kim: We just are Please tell me a story about your first successful spell that made you think holy shit. I am actually doing a thing.

Charlye: Okay, it's it's a little sensitive, I think. Not sensitive. And I'm not going to say that I went like grey. This is nowhere near Macy's Baba Yaga story. (both laugh) But there was an influence that was causing negativity in my personal life, and some of the personal lives of people that I am close to and I love very much. It was coming from a person. And I got very defensive, I think. It was the first time that I didn't just walk my house and flick whatever concoction I had made up. And I was protecting on a very spiritual level. This was the first time I was dealing with a human being. And I just opened up my books and I was like, what do I do in this situation? So I did serious big-time like warding for the first time, and I walked my property with like, I don't even remember what I used, I know like cayenne pepper was a part of it, you know. And I kind of very plainly spoke, I don't want this person coming here, you know, and I worked big-time with like visualization and and, okay. I, not really fully knowing what was up, I made a dinner that night, being at that time pretty, like, just fully, fully wanting to be a kitchen witch. Like, that was my label, you know? And I had done quite a bit of research on, like, I don't want to say it, like, with root vegetable, I guess like a poppet almost, out of a potato, you know, and then...

Kim: Yeah.

Charlye: ... you know, it's like make the likeness of say, you know, and then if you do certain things and you cook it and then you consume the food like it's the protection from that person, you know, the whole the whole spiel, right? And I did it and I remember something happened. Something happened and that person did not come over when they had planned to. And that made me go, Oh, shit. But it also made me wake up in the middle of the night, cold sweats, going, What did I do? What is this? Am I going... Is this is devil? What am I doing? Like, I really freaked out about it. I was like, am I toying with things I shouldn't be toying with? Like, I carved someone's likeness into a potato and ate it! Like, am I going to hell? You know? And it really freaked me out. So on one hand, it made me go, oh yeah, this is a thing. But on the other hand, it made me go, I need to be careful. You know? So, um, it's a story that still makes me a little itchy to this day.

 Kim: What's the funniest thing that ever happened? Witchy, witch-wise?

Charlye:  This is not my story. It's Macy's and I hope she doesn't mind, but I think of it and I laugh still. It was, and it's very in line with mind of the kind of the first experience you have and like the first time you really step out there out of your comfort zone and try something. But she said she had never really, with purpose, cleansed her house, you know? Energetically. So she was going through her house and doing her first like, baddies leave, baddies aren't welcome, only good things here, kind of cleansing. And she was doing it, you know, like clockwise and all this, you know, all the stuff that you do. And she said that for no reason, like a heavy ass backpack just like fell on the floor.  And she said she just went (makes scared gasping noise) and like panicked about like three days. She said was that a sign? should I not be doing this? I don't, oh my god, what knocked over that, was it a devil? I'll think about that sometimes. (both laugh) It cracks me up to go from that level of being afraid and not knowing and not understanding and basically not owning your own power, really, to say, get out, and that things will get out. And to just be scared, especially with the religion that is just ingrained into you from a young age. Especially where we live, you know, and it combats that and devil and witchcraft and like, it's just the fear like, I'll think about it and I just die laughing because now now she's the person wrapping people up and throwing them into a cow pasture. (both laugh) And it's just the complete 180 that we've taken, you know, on stuff like that. Now I'm like, yeah. I'd do that again any day of the week.

Kim: Who do you think should I should have on the show?

Charlye:  I'm cheating would I say this, but well I have two answers. And they're both a little cheaty. One is because I've heard whispers, I think there might, yeah but the first person would be official tweeter Corey B. I tag...

Kim: Heard whispers, I just flat out said it aloud just now! (both laugh)

Charlye: I don't know what you're going to put on though. I don't know what's going to make it. (both laugh) But yeah, I would be very much interested to hear, you know, and especially because he's from, where he's from, there's just a lot of cool shit that goes down. I say cool, but it's also extremely scary. But I just want to hear his stories and like his, I know he's an interesting cat. And the other one, this is kinda cheaty, but I would love for you to sit down and talk with Ken. I would listen to that. 

Kim: Oh.

Charlye: Yeah can, I can,  can I do that? Am I allowed to say that?

Kim: No. You're fired again. (both laugh)

Charlye:  I think that would be interesting.

Kim: I never even thought of that. Huh! (Charlye laughs) Because I don't consider him to be a witch.

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was like, that's why I'm cheating a little bit. 

Kim: I'll have to ask him. 

Charlye: But I think he could very well, I think it would be interesting to hear a non-witch's take on the witch life, you know? 

Kim: He may consider himself a witch. I've never asked him that. 

Charlye: You see? You never know. 

Kim: Well, shit. If I'm ever short one week, I'll be like, c'mere.

Charlye: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! I gotta put an episode out in eight hours, come here! 

Kim: No ums or I swear to God. 

Charlye: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not editing this, but you better do it right! We've had episodes like that where before we hit record, we go, we don't have time to record, I'm not in the headspace for it. And we're just like, look, we're like, don't you fuck, I won't fuck up if you don't fuck up and we always do.

Kim: Okay. I know you listen to Ear Biscuits. Hit me with a rec.

Charlye: Oh my god hold on, I gotta I gotta get prepared! No, can this be anything or is this specific?

Kim: Yeah, anything. 

Charlye: My head goes, okay, what have I been into recently? And I'm like, can I talk about-

Kim:  I don't do anything. 

Charlye: Can I talk about the self-help book I'm reading recently?

Kim: Yes. I don't want to give away my secrets. (laughs)

Charlye:  I don't want everyone to know how screwed up I am. Um, you know what? I guess I would say that I would like to recommend the, uh, shut up. What is it called? Okay, let's go with The Sunset Tree by the Mountain Goats. Because I'm about to go see them in concert and it is my first, my first outing. And if you're into deeply emotional music, that's kind of been getting me through the past couple of days. The Sunset Tree.

Kim:  Yay!

Charlye:  And Zebra Cakes. Can I? 

Kim: Oh. 

Charlye: Can I give a shout out to Zebra Cakes?

Kim:  You can give a shout out to Little Debbie as a damn whole. 

Charlye: What is it, Large Deborah? 

Kim: Except for those peanut butter wafer things. Not those. Charlye: What? 

Kim: I won't have it. 

Charlye: Are, the ones that are shaped like a peanut? 

Kim: No, they are shaped like wafers dipped in chocolate. 

Charlye: Oh, Nutter Butters or whatever? 

Kim: I don't know. 

Charlye: I'm going to come to your house. No, get out. I'm going to force feed them to you until you like it. 

Kim: Let me be clear. I will eat them. It's not like I'm not going to eat it if you hand it to me. But that's not my go-to. 

Charlye: Same with me and like Cosmic Brownies. Like I like them. 

Kim: Oh my god. 

Charlye: I get the appeal. I'll have it. 

Kim: Oh well no, those are the ones with the colors?

Charlye:  Yeah. 

Kim: I don't want that. 

Charlye: I'll take it. But if you give me a Zebra Cake, I will... 

Kim: Really? That's your... 

Charlye: That's my thing man, that's...

Kim: For me it's star crunch and choco gels.

Charlye: Choco gel... excuse me?

Kim: They call them something else now.

Charlye:  Is it gel like a jellified chocolate?

Kim: Ugh, no!

Charlye:  I'm gonna hork. What are you talking about? 

Kim: No, they call it something else now. It's white like whoopie, whoopie...

Charlye: whoopie pie?

Kim: Is that what they're called? It's not that, but think of the shape of that cake. 

Charlye: Okay.... 

Kim: It's a sandwich that's yellow cake. 

Charlye: Okay... 

Kim: And then cream in the middle and then strawberry gel in the middle and it's dipped in chocolate. I don't remember what they're called. I don't know the name, but I know the...

Charlye:  ooh, that sounds good. I'm hungry. 

Kim: But they called them ChocoGels when I was growing up. ME too. 

Charlye: This is why, like little insider bit. This is why me and Macy's podcast and whatever always end with us talking about food is because y'all don't know but we've been recording for three hours. So we're starving. 

Kim: Okay last thing. Tell me a story that you'd love to tell people, it doesn't matter what it's about. 

Charlye: I know a few. I've had very bad luck with vehicles and just accidentally, in some way or another ,destroying a vehicle. 

Kim: Oh. 

Charlye: And this one might get in trouble if my mom listens to this. (both laugh) Because I've never told her. I don't think I ever told her. I wouldn't say that I/ an angry person. I wouldn't say that I have like actual like road rage, but the maddest you will ever see me is in a car, right? So I have, I'm 16, I guess, right? And my dad has gotten me a car, you know, that I, it was like, you know, I... god I don't remember, 40 million year old car, right? And it's in okay condition that he got through like a friend of a friend. It was a big deal, right? Cause we're not just like super well off to give, you know, kids cars for the first time, you know? And I lived in a place that a lot of people when they turned 16, this is what, you would get a truck, like a new truck for your birthday. Especially like dudes, they'd get like a big truck. And then a girl, you know, like a chick, she would get like a, like a, what are those? 

Kim: A Honda.

Charlye:  Yeah, like a cute little, you know, or like a...

Kim: CRX.

Charlye: . A bug, you know, like a little Volks, you know. 

Kim: Oh, yeah. 

Charlye: Just one of those little things, you know. And that wasn't us and what we did. And so I get this car and I'm so pumped about it. And I had just got my license and I go to see my boyfriend. And I remember we're in the car and I'm looking and we're looking around and just at stuff driving at night as our first taste of freedom and he goes "Can you please look at the road? you're making me nervous because you're looking all over the place." and I remember I looked at him and I was gonna try to be funny and like look at him like a little longer than I should have and been like oh what are you scared? But the thing is there was a pile of concrete blocks in the road. I mean I, for no reason, just dumped off a truck or something.

Kim: Mm-hmm.

Charlye: And it was just the perfect size. I didn't hit it with my wheels, but I like turned and I gave him this like sassy look like, I'll do what I want, don't tell me what to do, I'm driving the car. And you feel tons of stones just rip out the bottom of my car. (both laugh) We like pulled over, we're checking on things, and I take him home and to the end of that car's life, it made this, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, noise in the background. But I never told anybody. I never told my parents, because they just spent money on it. And I never told anybody that, so I might get in trouble. The other one I definitely will get in trouble for is, I was in my mom's car, I was driving to see a friend, and she had a little tiny crack on her windshield, right? Just a little tiny one, the ones that don't really bother you. They're like going down the left side. And I get stuck on this country road. If you've ever driven little country roads, sometimes you'll get stuck behind a tractor. 

Kim: Yep. 

Charlye: And they go five miles an hour. And I can't get around this dude. And I'm just sitting there. And I'm late. I'm like going to a party. I'm trying to have fun. And I'm like cussing this guy. I'm just like, "Get the fuck out of here!" because I'm so cool and I'm, you know, 17 or whatever. And I get to the point where I'm so mad, and this taught me a lesson to like not be this person. Don't lash out physically when you're angry. Like I got a big, what we call here, Jesus whoopins, where you do something and then you immediately get slapped down for it. I like took my fist and very lightly, but still kind of firmly and angrily, I like knocked on the front like, come on dude! And the whole windshield just cracked like a spiderweb. 

Kim: OPE

Charlye: And this was my moms car! And I saw it and I was like, oh shit. And then as I'm driving I see the reflection of the light hit, you know how it'll hit the crack? 

Kim: Oh no. 

Charlye: And I see just the extent of it. So I'm like, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna park my mom's car. I'm gonna go to bed. I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not saying a thing. You know, and then the next morning, I, I'm such a little shit. I was like, "Mom, I was in your car last night and like under some of the streetlights, it looked like that crack on your windshield grew. What happened?" I realize now that I gaslit my own mother. (both laugh) Into not, because I didn't want to be in trouble. And yes I know that this is a terrible terrible story. I was a shitty teenager. But... I got away with it, and she was like oh damn it. She wasn't that upset about it and it was alright, you know. But looking back I'm just like I need to apologize to my mother. That was the actual manipulation. 

Kim: Realistically though, you didn't do that by tapping on the windshield. 

Charlye: Hmmm...

Kim: You did lie. 

Charlye: I did lie. Oh, I absolutely lied. I absolutely lied. (laughs) And the thing is, is I don't like lying to family or people that I know. So I feel like that's one of those things that I've lived with for a long time and I'm like, oh shit. I love telling stories, you know. I don't know if you've ever done that thing, like you meet someone that you know you're never gonna see again, so you might like embellish. You might like embellish the truth a little bit. Or like when we went to Chicago, I know there were times when I was like kinda playing up my accent a little bit, you know, cause I knew, I knew I was far away from Texas and you know, just that kind of thing. But I don't do it to friends and family. So that is really, it stuck with me. All my stories feel like cautionary tales because there's always a lesson. (both laugh) Oh, man. I feel good. I got that off my chest. 

Kim: Well, good. Well, thank you for coming on the show. And for telling stories.

Charlye: Well, thank you so much for allowing me to come and to get some things off my chest today. I feel like I'm gonna take this whole episode and play it for my therapist. Can we talk about...

Kim: Some part of it, some parts of it.

Charlye: ...being a kid, I remember being a kid and being like, I can't wait to grow up, I can't wait to drive, I can't wait to do this, and now all I wanna do is go play in the mud and not have bills. 

Kim: Yeah. I don't wanna go to work.

Charlye: Y.eah.

Kim:  I would like to not job,not job, never job. I don't want to drive and I don't want job.

Charlye: No job, no drive, just chicken nuggets and TV please.

Kim: Yeah. I want to make shit.

Charlye: Yeah. Fuck off, do crafts, not have trauma, that'll be great! (both laugh)

Kim:  Okay. It was good to talk to you. 

Charlye: It was great to talk to you voice to voice for the first time ever. 

Kim: Yeah. 

Charlye: Thank you for having me on. This was seriously such an honor. I'm very glad. When you, when you start I've been so glad. Anytime you've started anything, like it just, like the YouTube channel and the podcast and stuff. So when you asked us to be on, I was like, oh shit, dude! So thank you. It was very cool. 

Kim: Yay! Okay, welp.

Both: Bye!

Kim:  Thanks for listening to this episode of Your Average Witch. You can find us all around the internet on Instagram at youraveragewitchpodcast, Facebook at facebook.com/youraveragewitchpodcast, at youraveragewitch.com, and at your favorite podcast service. Want to help the podcast grow? Leave a review. You can review us on Amazon and Apple podcasts, and now you can rate us on Spotify. You just might hear your review read at the end of an episode. To rate Your Average Witch on Spotify, click the home key, click Your Average Witch Podcast, and then leave a rating. If you'd like to recommend someone for the podcast, like to be on it yourself, or if you'd like to advertise on the podcast, send an email to youraveragewitchpodcast at gmail.com. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next Tuesday.