Meet Hannah.

This week I talked to Hanna Joslin, a witch now living in the PNW. We talked about how different places can affect your practice, why you should treat your current self as your inner child, and how yoga is her favorite magical tool.

Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Clever Kims Curios. Before I get any further, I want to tell you about something exciting! Your Average Witch moved! I built my own website, and now you can find everything from Your Average Witch there, along with my shop, Clever Kim's Curios, and my subscription service with everything I offered before, only better. Visit crepuscularconjuration.com, youraveragewitch.com, or cleverkimscurios.com to learn more, or just listen to the bumper at the end of this episode. This week I talked to Hannah Joslin, a witch now living in the Pacific Northwest. We talked about how different places can affect your practice, why you should treat your current self as your inner child, and how yoga is her favorite magical tool. Now let's get to the stories. 

Kim: Hi Hannah, welcome to the show. 

Hannah: Hi. 

Kim: Would you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you.

Hannah: Yes, so hi, my name is Hannah. My pronouns are she and her. I am coming to you from unceded Kalapuya land, which is colonized as Eugene, Oregon. I really only have one kind of passion life project to share about where people can find me and that's mostly on my YouTube at Hannah Joslin, H-A-N-N-A-H-J-O-S-L-I-N, and that is where I talk about the intersections and connections between yoga, spirituality, or witchcraft, and mental health.

Kim: Neat! So what does it mean to you when you call yourself a witch?

Hannah: So... to call myself a witch, and to kind of identify with that label, is really just that to me. It's a label that provides a little extra clarity as to how I choose to experience life, if that makes sense. So it's like, it's like the same as a body. It's a vehicle by which I'm experiencing life. And to me, that means, witch means spiritual, it means practicing awareness, it means practicing mindfulness, and intention, and purpose, and love for the universe and all of its mysterious parts.

Kim: That's sweet! (Hannah laughs) This is the second time this month, I think that love has come up, in a big way.

Hannah: It's a big one, yeah.

Kim: But I also think it might be one of the, I know it's not the first month, but I don't recall it coming up this in such a large way. Do you have any family history with witchcraft or any witches in your family that you know of?

Hannah: So only my sister. History and like... so let me back up. I'm mainly Japanese and Norwegian. So those serve as like launching points for me for looking into my own ancestry and history and practices from there, but as for like knowing somebody in my family, or knowing of somebody in my family with a history of witchcraft, I don't, except for my sister. She and I both started practicing witchcraft... honestly before we really knew what it was and what we were doing, and before we ever told each other. So I can't really speak to her timeline, but I know for myself I came into a more purposeful or purposely expanding my knowledge and studying it and actually practicing it more consistently in like 2018. And then it of course just kind of comes out between me and my sister that we've both been on the witch train for years but not together and now we are.

Kim: That's interesting! Huh. 

Hannah: Yeah, we've got, we both practice quite differently, I would say, although it's starting to overlap more and more, but I, she has some stories from childhood and I have some stories from And both of us didn't know the other was kind of doing the same thing.

Kim: Are there any of the stories that you can share? 

Hannah: Yeah, so in my practice, for as long as I can remember, I tend to work a lot with the breath. And one of the one of the core things I'll talk about on my YouTube channel is actually this belief system that magic equals intention plus action. Or I like to call it purposeful engagement, which is just, and some people may have heard this before, that magic is simply the pairing of a certain intention plus a certain action. And so looking back at my life and into childhood, I used to very consistently inhale the things I wanted more of, and exhale that which I had an aversion to. So for example, I'm like six and I'm on a playground, and I'm having a great time, and I'm looking at some freaking grass and it's great, and I would peer at the grass and think about how much I loved it and loved playing, and I would like inhale, physically inhale that notion and that feeling and that existence that I was currently in. And other times I'm like, the one that's coming to mind is I'm 12 I'm in sixth grade and a bully just said something awful to me, one of my bullies just said something awful to me. You know how sixth grade is. And I'm watching her walk away and I exhale at her. I don't like that, like at her, like she doesn't know that I do it, but to myself I like exhale at her. I exhale and I think about how I didn't like that experience or how she treated people, and I didn't want that type of thing in my life. So now, with more knowledge that I've gained over the years, I can kind of look back and see that that first inhale with the grass was almost like a manifestation. It was magic by way of pairing the intention of beautiful fun days with the action of inhaling. And I see that second scenario as like a releasing, or cleansing, or maybe boundary setting in some way, with the bully or someone like the bully. So I didn't have like the terminology for it then, but I definitely have been doing that my whole life.

Kim: That sounds a lot like how I do things. I mean I didn't do it when I was a child. I don't have memories of doing it as a child. It was much more recent, but I also do a lot of breathing and things with breaths. That's cool.

Hannah: Yeah. 

Kim: That was a little bit of an introduction to your practice. Do you have any daily practices or any consistent practices that you'll share?

Hannah: I do a lot of small things and rarely do real big things. Think like Sabbats. That's about as often as I do big things. But I do a lot of little things throughout the day and daily, pretty consistently. I don't know how else to phrase this, I pause a lot. So I Pause a lot throughout my day to do the tiniest little mini rituals. So I'll, like when I get up from my computer, and I work from home all day long. So I get it from my computer and I'm like going to the kitchen for water or tea, I'll like mid-step pause and close my eyes and do some action that feels beneficial. So maybe it's like I shake out my whole body starting with my fingertips all the way until I'm jumping up and down because I want to release the tension I was just feeling from work or whatever. Or maybe I'm feeling really tired and defeated, I'll pause and inhale and put my hand on my chest and exhale and tell my heart that I am capable. And some people look at that and they're like, oh, okay, so an affirmation. And I'm like, yeah. Or they say, oh, that's CBT, that's cognitive behavioral therapy, that's internal belief system wiring. And I'm like, yeah, it's also witchcraft. And yeah, I guess on the more tangible side, I very regularly do grounding rituals. I'm very lucky enough to have a beautiful yard with big trees and moss and stuff. So I'm very...

Kim: I have envy.

Hannah: (laughs) I know! I have envy of myself. We've only lived here for eight weeks and I still like wake up every morning and I'm like, oh my god. Yeah, but I, I'll go put my hands or my forehead on a tree, or in the dirt. I also make my, my textbook Taurus sun is going to come out a little bit here. I make, I make a lot of mocktails, like a lot of non-alcoholic beverages constantly and I'll intuitively choose like flavors and herbs to make in that as like these little mini potions for whatever spell concoction intention I'm going for. Those are probably those are the two things that are most consistent or daily in my practice.

Kim: And I mean, I feel like that about placebo, honestly, because if it does what I want, who cares?

Hannah: Exactly. Yeah. And that's, yeah, that's why there's so many overlaps and just interesting connections between all of these things. And that is what eventually like became the core of this, that the channel that I started is like, people don't know that they're already doing witchcraft all of the time. If you journal, if you meditate, if you, yeah, the intersections between witchcraft or any spirituality and mental health practices is so rich and expansive. 

Kim: Would you say that witchcraft has changed your life?

Hannah: Yeah. (laughs) yes. 

Kim: (laughs) The end. Okay, next.

Hannah: (laughs) Perioid. Next. No, it has absolutely changed my life, and shaped it, and been part of it for so long, even when I didn't know that that's what it was or that it was there. When I try to think about how it's changed my life, or like the biggest lessons, it's shown me, it's shown me that I... one, that I have power. And two, that power doesn't always mean control. So personally, I know I have the power to manifest certain things, but that doesn't necessarily mean I can create perfect situations, or avoid rough situations always. And that's the nature of life and experiencing things as a human, I think, is learning cosmic lessons that, however you want to say it, that like guide us, shepherd us, are just an experience closer to whatever you think the end is, enlightenment, whatever, different people want to call it. Being more with more one with your higher self or gods or goddesses, universe. I think that's part of it is that as powerful as we are we cannot forever manifest away hardship, and we can't have control over everything. But we can manifest energies that will support us in our journeys. So I can manifest wealth and abundance, I've done it before, but that doesn't mean I'll never have like a huge disaster bill or something. It means that I'll always be taken care of. It means that in the unpredictability of life, I have the power to be in tune with and aware of the fact that I am always taken care of. So it's really faith and I fully believe in embracing personal power but for me at least that power just doesn't also mean control. It means being aware of your own capability to be loving and honest and a positive Um, a forever student, even when you're a teacher, like I am. Um, yeah, I don't know if that if that made sense, but it witchcraft in my life is everything.

Kim: I like what you said. Well, here's what you made me think of. I think part of the reason non-practitioners, part of the problem non-practitioners have with the term witchcraft and the term magic is that they think we're saying we're gonna fix everything in our lives like that. 

Hannah: Mm-hmm. 

Kim: And we're not. 

Hannah: Mm-hmm. 

Kim: At least I'm not, and nobody I know does it, like this is saying they can do that. We all have problems. We all have uncontrollable situations, but we just have, we're just, this is what we're doing to cope with it and what we feel is helping it. And if it doesn't work for you, cool, but you don't get to, don't yuck my yum bro.

Hannah: Yeah, exactly. And people it's, it's such a deep well to look into if you're going to start looking into it. So it makes sense that people want to like oversimplify it, and breeze past like any nuance and be like, "Oh, if witches are so powerful, why haven't you solved like every problem in the universe yet?" You know?

Kim: "Why haven't you won the lottery? Ha ha ha!"

Hannah: Yeah. But it's if people take the time to pause and look at the complexity of it, they'll, yeah, you're right, they'll see so much more.

Kim: What would you say is the biggest motivator in your practice?

Hannah: I want to heal people. And I needed to, and need to, continue healing myself in order to be able to do that. So the biggest motivator is that deep desire to reach a lot of people and be a part in being a healing energy, or have a healing impact on them in some way. And in order for me to heal, so that I am the best presence I can be to help heal others, what I think is most important is I need to cultivate awareness in myself, and continuous presence. So, yeah. That's definitely my biggest motivator. 

Kim: What brings you the most joy in your practice? I feel like I know the answer based on that, what you just said. 

Hannah: Yeah, small moments of connection. So I've written things in the past and if even like one person comments on it and says it was really helpful or they'd never thought of it like that, that brings me obviously an immense amount of joy. But what I mean by small moments of connection is just those feelings we get that we're like blessed with of being connected to something greater than ourselves, something bigger than ourselves. And that can be as small as like synchronicities and angel numbers throughout the day to as big as, wow I see how the last decade of my life really set me up perfectly for this moment.

Kim: I don't know that I want to experience that, it sounds terrifying.

Hannah: You know, as someone who has experienced that, it was terrifying and it was like an absolute beneficial turning point in life for me. And like a wake-up call,  but in a good way.

Kim: I'm kind of a hypocrite in that, yeah, I will do things that I call witchcraft, and I will believe, at least in my forebrain, like my consciousness, I will believe it. I don't know if I believe it in my subconscious, and I think that's why I'm like, holy shit! when things actually happen.

Hannah: Yeah, well and we can, even if your whole subconscious and your whole soul really believes in it that doesn't mean that hints and reminders of... confirmation of that aren't still like amazing and very wanted and needed. So yeah, those, the things that brings me the most joy are definitely those really small moments, those reminders and those moments of connection. So sometimes it's in dreams, sometimes it's like when you're going through a really hard time, and it's just those moments where, I don't know. To me, it feels like looking up, like you're just reminded to like look up and that something, someone, however it embodies itself, or is an archetype for anybody, is there and part of this. 

Kim: What would you say is your biggest struggle with witchcraft? 

Hannah: The sense of urgency. So I'm always practicing, and really practicing, lately, not attaching myself to urgency, and feeling like I need to stick or stick to a certain type of process or be rushed towards some standard of success. So it might be the waxing moon, which is a great time to take clear steps towards what you want to manifest on the full moon. And I know I have things I want to manifest on the full moon, but I can't force anything. And forcing myself to adhere to that urgency hurts my practice more than it helps it. Or like it's Ostara, or Beltane, or the first rain of the season, and I want to do like a whole dinner spread, or collect the stormwater, or so many different things. And I have to remember that urgency, the urgency of it, and the urgency that I feel when it's not just plain excitement, is capitalism and colonialism. And it's drilled, urgency is drilled into us as part of our society. We must work now so we can rest later. We must take what we can get now in case more doesn't come. And to decolonize and de-systemize myself from that idea that I'm so used to, and that all of us are so used to, I try to lean into the fact that rest or non-urgency is not the same as lack of discipline. And I struggle with that every single day. But what I try to tell myself is, I am allowed to practice and be on my own time and timeline, and I don't need to do something when the clock strikes midnight, and I don't need to have fancy or expensive tools to do anything. And reminding myself that my witchcraft gets the most purpose and intention and power from me... being, period. Because that energy and presence of just being, and not doing or adhering or rushing, but just being, is arguably more... that's what matters arguably more than anything else when it comes to a witchy practice or a ritual, is your ability to be present in the moment and tuned into a higher awareness and proud of what you're doing. So I constantly need to work on practicing what I preach, but that is that the fruits of that labor aren't hinged on following a calendar to the T, or on urgency. They're hinged on you or me.

Kim: Well you didn't say what I expected you to say, which was impostor syndrome. (both laugh)

Hannah: I mean that's, I- I've worked a lot on impostor syndrome, for sure.

Kim: Well, can you tell us what you've done, and if it helps?

Hannah: Yeah. So... (pauses) A lot of people, I think, or the message that is very commonly shared, is that you can like beat or overpower or overcome imposter syndrome. But I would say that impostor syndrome is part of your work, and you don't need to beat it, you need to be with it. And that it's a message more than anything. A lot of the... I was going to say a lot of the hard things we feel are messages, but I don't want to sound um... I say that as someone with intrusive thoughts and five different diagnosed mental illnesses and I don't mean to bypass any of that. But in many ways a lot of the messages that come to us, like feelings of self-doubt and imposter syndrome, are just that, they're messages. They're not evil,  they're not our enemy, they are just that. They are holding a message for us if we listen, if we stop and listen to them. So, for example, the thought that I'm not a good enough witch, or do I really deserve to talk about all of these things?  If I stop and I pick up that thought, and I see it as a message and I hold it, and do my best to hold it with love as opposed to shutting it down or stuffing it away, I can see it. Like literally picturing in my mind's eye, I can see it. I'm holding it in my hands and I see, oh, this isn't my brain being my enemy, or trying to be mean and make me doubt myself. It's a manifestation of how much I care about this endeavor. And it's a message that I don't want to fail, and that maybe I have fears around not living up to someone else's expectations or what things are supposed to look like. And the message points us towards those unaddressed, maybe subconscious beliefs that I must be perfect right now and never mess up and never make a mistake. And that that comparison to someone else or imposter syndrome is a way to stay safer or not trying at all is a way to stay safer from that fear and from possible disappointment and discomfort. But when we hold that thought with love, we can look at it and pause and say, hey, thanks, but that's actually not necessary right now because we are safe, and we are capable, and actually we are allowed to make mistakes. And that's, that's the whole point. I mean, that's the whole point of being alive. If we didn't make mistakes, we wouldn't be human, we wouldn't be here. We'd already be enlightened or ascended or whatever you call it. And so every thought that points us towards fears like that, or points us towards self-doubt, every pain, is a messenger. And that's actually, I just realized that is actually wording that comes from Rumi, a Sufi poet. Not me. At least the pain is a messenger part. But yeah, every, every thought is a messenger. So even the hard ones like imposter syndrome, I like to befriend them so that I can hear what they actually have to say. 

Kim: So you've been to Anahatas, right?

Hannah: Yes. 

Kim: And you know we're huge on inner child work at Anahatas. And I've been editing past episodes, well not editing the episodes, but I'm adding transcripts to all my old episodes. And so I was working on Lera's interview last night. And one of the things that we talked about for like three seconds, and I haven't gone back to it until just now, is the idea that imposter syndrome is when your inner child is telling you something, and that's something you need to work on.

Hannah: Mm-hmmm.

Kim: And what you said just agreed with it.

Hannah: Yeah, I mean- the same concept can be said for inner child work in general. It's pausing to talk to them, and see what underlying message is actually behind whatever's poking at you.

Kim: Yeah.

Hannah: In that moment. And something just because we're talking about inner child work, I have to say because this was such a big a big fact in my work, was that a lot of people for their- well, I guess it's different for everyone but in my experience a lot of people doing inner child work are thinking about like this five-year-old, or like this very little child, and something that was really groundbreaking and difficult for me was acknowledging that like, 12-year-old me is also that inner child, as is 16-year-old me, even though I have a lot less sympathy for 16, 17-year-old me than I do for this supposedly perfect, innocent 5-year-old. 

Kim: Don't be mean to yourself!

Hannah: No, I, but that's the part that made it so difficult and like upped my inner child's work game is that I was like, oh, that 16 year old is also my inner child and deserves as much care as this five year old inner child that I tend to picture more. And then that got me on this whole tangent of, well, if me now, I'm 27, I'm looking back at 16-year-old me and saying, that's my inner child and she deserves care. Then who's to say at like... 35, I won't look back on me now, and say that 27-year-old is also my inner child and deserves care. When we're 70, are we going to look back on 50-year-old us and say that person is still my inner child and deserves care? And I think for me, thinking about that concept, in tandem with inner child work, made me much more... it made me care about myself more, because if that continues to be true, I don't need to do it only in hindsight. I can do it right now, and like really care about myself more now in the present and assume the best intentions, and say that that person also deserves love and to be protected and to feel held by all versions of me. Not only past and future, who's looking at me now in retrospect, but present me, as well.

Kim: Well this fucking revolutionary! (Hannah laughs) Jesus Christ! Because while you were talking about your 16 year old self, I was thinking well I do that, and then I realized I'm... twice as old as you almost. And as you were like, simultaneously as you were saying it I was thinking, well, is it going to change? Because it's only 10 years ago for you when you were 16, 10-ish. 

Hannah: Mhmmm.

Kim: And I... 16, 16 is such a long time, and I think of myself as a child, as a 16-year-old. But when I think back to 10 years from now, ago, however time works. Words. Like my 35-year-old self, I did so many stupid things then. That's, see? That's exactly what you're saying. Okay yeah. I'm kind of angry now. (laughs)

Hannah: (laughs) I'm so sorry. It's really, it's really hard, but I think if... I don't want to say this as a blanket statement. But for me, it's easier to love and protect and do inner child work for this five-year-old-

Kim: Yeah, it is.

Hannah: ...that has never done anything wrong in their life. It's much harder to look back at 21-year-old me and do the same. But they're still the same person. And that is still the inner child.

Kim: "But it's still the same person." Yeah. 

Hannah: Well, I guess.

Kim: How about we don't think child? How about we just say our inner person who was hurt... whenever.

Hannah: Yeah, all past versions of ourselves. And then when we get to that point, why do we need to do it only in hindsight? And we can do the same for present self too.

Kim: That also means that we're going to have to give that same grace to our parents, who- or whoever it was in our childhood or past, that caused this pain and this hurt, and that's hard. So basically you just have to be kind to everyone in the universe, everybody. You hear it? There you go, that's the answer. (laughs)

Hannah: There you go. I mean that's a whole other topic, but yeah, kindness and forgiveness are much more complicated than people give them credit for. So, yeah, anyways, that would be a whole other episode.

Kim: Would you say you're fearful about anything in witchcraft, or your practice? 

Hannah: Hmm. So fearful... what first came to mind were like these scary moments that I think probably all baby witches have when they're starting out, and all witches occasionally, of like harsh energies or shadow people or feeling unsafe in some way. But I actually haven't, that's what came to mind when you said fearful, but I actually haven't had... I'm just realizing now I haven't had a scary moment like that in quite a long time, which can probably be attributed to me just like coming into my practice more, and knowing and being more confident in setting protections. But that definitely used to be something I was fearful of, of not knowing what is like in the shadows, or in the darkness, or in the unknown. But as a kind of broader take on that question, when I think about fear, something that came to mind was, it's a Ram Dass quote, and it's not a direct quote because I don't know it off the top of my head. But it's something along the lines of "The snake sheds its skin as fast as it sheds its skin." And what he meant by that was, you can't rush any processes, and each of us will take the time that it takes. And that's all. So when I think about fear in my practice, I think about maybe my fear of not learning enough, or practicing enough in this lifetime. And I try to remember that quote, that I am shedding, or becoming, as fast as I am; which is as fast as I am meant to. I guess when I think about it... another big fear I have, just in life, is miscommunicating an idea, or giving someone the wrong impression. And that quote comes up again of, I can quite literally only do my best day to day. Which is not an excuse, of course. But each of us truly only learn things as fast as we learn them. And none of us will ever know everything. And so we must make those mistakes, because it only happens when it happens. It takes the time that it takes. So, I don't know, that's kind of a vague idea, but that is more my thinking around fear when it comes to my practice. 

Kim: I like that quote. I've heard it said in different ways by different people. And it reminds me of dogs. Apparently dogs are just a thing in this interview today. It's probably been cut out, but everyone, all the listeners, hey, if you hear my dogs, it's because they're screaming at something directly outside, and I've gone out to check on them and they keep barking.

Hannah: And it was not a rattlesnake.

Kim: No, no. (laughs) At least I didn't see one. (knocking sound) That was me knocking on wood. (which, dear reader, did not work, because in the few months between recording and editing, Kori got bitten by a rattlesnake.) But something, I was really into dog training and dog behavior and I thought I was going to try to become a behaviorist, a canine behaviorist and that, no thank you. But the fact that, yeah, you've spent four hours trying to teach this dog how to do whatever to sit and it's not. But that's just what, it just didn't learn it. That's it. You're not communicating the right way. It doesn't understand what you want. If it did, it would do it.

Hannah: Yeah.

Kim: And that's just the way it is.

Hannah: Yeah. That's, yeah. My partner, Raaka, who I believe you might have met at Anahata's, at least briefly, she was Fire Daddy.

Kim: Yeah, I remember Fire Daddy. I didn't speak to very many people, but I remember who people are. And I did have a... I gave everybody my own names for them, but now I know what their name is.

Hannah: Yeah. So, they are actually a dog trainer and in the process of being a full-on behaviorist, funnily enough, and that was a huge thing that they're even teaching me continuously and that, I mean, dog training is really people training. It's owner training.

Kim: Yeah.

Hannah: And the thing that they need to communicate, I feel like, hopefully I'm not misrepresenting this, but it's that. It's that if they understood you, they would want to do it. Like, dogs want to please, and they want to learn, and they want to communicate with us. And so when people get frustrated- we're on a whole dog training tangent now, but when people get frustrated- 

Kim: But it's relevant to our lives. 

Hannah: Yeah, about the dog not learning something. It's not that they're like being stubborn necessarily. There's so many other factors at play and it takes the time that it takes because there's very minimal direct communication that is perfect between human and non-human. 

Kim: Well, think of how many miscommunications we have as people to people who actually also speak English.

Hannah: I know, yeah.

Kim: Much less a dog who doesn't speak English.

Hannah: Yeah, so it just, yeah. All dogs are different, all people are different, and yeah, it takes the time that it takes.

Kim: My actual point that I forgot, and then I'm back to it again, is, (laughs) that I've gradually, that sort of sunk in, and I'm like, oh yeah, that's it just takes as long as it takes. Not about dogs. Just about my life or my job or my practice or the car or whatever. (laughs) We'll get back on topic eventually.

Hannah: We're there. I think we did it. (both laugh)

Kim: What is something that you did early on in your practice that you don't do anymore, and why don't you?

Hannah: I think this one will be pretty relatable to a lot of people. I thought that the quality of my magic was attached to the aesthetics of it. So I would think "If I'm really going to sit down and dress this candle for a certain purpose and light it, I'd better make it look nice."

Kim: You'e hurting my feelings. (laughs)

Hannah: (exclaims) Why?!

Kim: (laughs) You're calling me out right now, over this past week. How dare you.

Hannah: This is- YOU said something in your practice that you no longer do, so we're in the same boat.

Kim: But I AM doing it! And it's not gonna work if it's not beautiful. (continues laughing) My candle, that's my candles for me.

Hannah: I know. Yeah, that perfectionism will really get you. I guess I used to think that that was part, making it look nice or making it look perfect, I thought was part of the respect I'm showing the universe, or the energy that I'm asking to tap into, but I no longer do that because, at least for me, I know that I can be purposeful and respectful,and sometimes that might look like a dash of cinnamon across the top of the candle and that's it, and not the perfect lavender sprigs and bruised rosemary and a brand new candle, etc. It...yeah. Allowing that notion, that practice doesn't have to be pretty, despite a lot of what social media and like visually focused witchy accounts would imply. 

Kim: Hmm. You should trademark that saying and put it on t-shirts. 

Hannah: (laughs) You got it. 

Kim: I am too involved in capitalism. (laughs)

Hannah: I mean, we have to be, sadly, for now. 

Kim: I hate it. I hate it so much. But, bro. You should do that. 

Hannah: Wait, let me confirm. The practice doesn't have to be pretty?

Kim: Yeah, not even "the",  just practice doesn't have to be pretty. Oh, yeah, "the" makes more sense because practice also means like... softball. But yeah, with like, with like, I don't know, old flowers, like an old... like the things are like the petals are falling, like it's an old flower in a vase and the- Why, why are we doing this right now? I don't know. But it's an old flower in a vase and like some of the daisy petals are dropping off and then in like some, I don't know what kind, what font. This is what I do with my life. I am a nerd.

Hannah: I think you're describing...

Kim: Anyway, it's so cool.

Hannah: I think you're describing my first ever physical offering here. (laughs)

Kim: Aww. But it worked, right?

Hannah: That -also, that's so layered. To go with that symbolism of like something decaying, or dead, because then you get into the whole life and death dualities, and time is an illusion, and what are standards, and all of that up in the clouds stuff. 

Kim: If we start talking about time again, I'm just going to freak out.

Hannah: You won't be okay. (laughs)

Kim: I can't deal with time things at all. That's why I'm not ever punctual. What would you say is your favorite tool in your practice? It does not have to be a physical object.

Hannah: Yoga, for sure. I am a yoga student and a yoga teacher, and it is definitely my favorite part of my practice or tool. Yoga is like its own practice, of course, not just a tool. I mean, yoga dates back to like between two and 10,000 years ago to South Asia. And I think it's very important to like, call that out, and honor the cultural roots there, and be educated and mindful and purposeful about it. But yoga is not tied to any one religion, so it leaves room to be personalized. And the way I do that, is that it becomes part of my witchcraft. My yoga practice becomes part of my witchcraft practice. So in that kind of formula I mentioned earlier, of that magic equals intention plus action or purposeful engagement, yoga is very often my action. So I probably most commonly do this in relation to the lunar cycle. So if it's the new moon and I want to do a ritual of clearing away the heaviness I've been feeling the last month, I might put together a yoga asana sequence that focuses on like heart openers or maybe a really intense vinyasa to like bring heat to the surface and then I visualize my sweat as pouring out that stagnant energy. So, yeah, again, yoga is its own world and there's so many different aspects to it and different approaches and philosophies behind it. But that said, as a person who's been practicing yoga for a very long time and teaching it now, it is definitely, when I think about like my toolkit for witchcraft, it is definitely at the top. It's almost not even a different practice to me.

Kim:  Hmm. I always want to get involved in it, but then I don't ever actually do it. I have a super nice yoga mat. And I just never use it. 

Hannah: I would highly recommend it. But also, that's really understandable, because popular yoga in the West is like... I don't want to get in trouble for saying anything, but it's hardly yoga.

Kim: It's aesthetic.

Hannah:  It's very aesthetic and it's also only, often, only physical. It's only the asana, which I mean, is such a small part of the entirety of what yoga is. Yoga is mostly spiritual, and like a way of living life, and it's just such a deep and long history. The other limbs of yoga, one of them is dhyana, which is meditation. Pranayama is breathwork. Both of those are yoga. If you're doing those, you're doing yoga. And then this one was mind-blowing to me when I learned it. Dharana is like concentration, or gazing. So like, in witchcraft, fucking fire gazing. That's yoga. And what's popular in the West, and what unfortunately so many people believe yoga to be, is this really tiny snapshot of only physical asana, and none of the rest. 

Kim: Yeah, it's been interesting to see how Macy has changed. Like as a person.

Hannah: Yeah, since doing her yoga teacher training.

Kim: Yeah.

Hannah: Yeah, I can relate. A lot. 

Kim: So I'm interested in seeing how she's changed even more over the past year, because I haven't seen her since Anahata, so that'll be interesting. 

Hannah: Yeah. 

Kim: Now we all get into low periods. How do you pull yourself out of a magical slump? 

Hannah: This is going to sound maybe overly simple and a little cliche, but I go outside. Even if it's just my yard, which again, I mentioned this earlier, but I'm very privileged to have like a very nature-y yard. But I'll go outside, I'll stick my feet in the dirt, and I'll put my hands on a tree, and I'll look up at the sky. And I just wait there. And I've never failed to receive the message that I am okay and this is okay. And hard things will pass and good things will come. I'm just realizing that in those moments, the message is always something like "we," we are capable, or we are enough just by being as opposed to you or I, which I'll have to think more on later. But yeah, I've never failed to receive that message that we are capable, and we are enough just by being and not doing anything, as I mentioned before, but just being, that we are enough. And then of course in thanking them, whoever them might be, universe, the tree, whatever, I am reminded of gratitude in general, which also never hurts when you're in a low period.

Kim: Okay, so I have a couple questions about that. Did the "we" happen before you moved where you live now? When you needed to go do that?

Hannah: Hmmm. I think it did. I think it has happened in the past in similar moments. Like I also am definitely a sea witch, and so I'll like float, in the middle of the ocean, on a perfect day. And I do remember getting that message in the form of "we" back then as well. But it's definitely clearer here, specifically, like more direct. 

Kim: So when you got there, was that immediate or did they have to get to know you first? 

Hannah: Oh, I mean, if we're talking like the energies, and maybe spirits that were present in this house that we just moved into, that's a whole, yeah. There was a lot going on there.

Kim: Well I don't mean in the house, I mean out when you had to go out and ground.

 Hannah: It was pretty immediate, but it's almost like the energies I felt there, because this is, I mean... Pacific Northwest Forest is so old, and you feel that as soon as you walk, as soon as you're around here or as soon as you're in a naturey spot, more or less. So yeah, you walk into my yard and there's so much presence. And it's so, like, aside from the fact that physically they're tall trees, the presence is very towering, and like commanding respect. And that was very intimidating at first. But when I go out there and I ground, it is that energy that's present, but it's also, like in that "we" message, it's also bigger than just right around that area. It's more like everything, if that makes sense, as well as the specific energies that you feel when you are with a specific tree or in my yard. 

Kim: Hmm, that's interesting. 

Hannah: Yeah.

Kim: We're gonna switch a tiny bit of track, just jump a little bit. It's gonna veer a little bit away from that.

Hannah: Okay.

Kim: If you could only recommend one book to a new witch, what would it be and why?

Hannah: I have a loophole answer for this. 

Kim: Oh no. I don't accept that. (both laugh)

Hannah: I could never pinpoint, I think, one perfect book or like website to kick off learning about witchcraft, but if this could count as a book, my answer would be a journal. Because while I could never pinpoint the perfect intro book or first book, I do know the power of intuitively writing and journaling as a method of tuning into yourself and your own intentions, and therefore your power and the fact that you are a witch.

Kim: Hmm, very clever. (both laugh) How about just a knowledge source. But only one. Or information rather than knowledge. Because that's a whole different thing.

Hannah: For new witches?

Kim: Yeah.

Hannah: WBAH for sure. Witch Bitch Amateur Hour podcast. It is, it will be I think for, especially for new witches, the reason it is such a good source for that, is because of the sustainability of it. That you can throw it on every day or whenever you're commuting or whatever, and be taking in knowledge in a relaxed state, as opposed to like some people have a really hard time with studying and not everyone has the same learning modalities. And it can be such a casual way to be taking in so much background information all the time, in a way that's really fun and not... (laughs) not too focused.

Kim: (laughs) Yeah.

Hannah: But helpful nevertheless. And really, like a launching point. So if one topic one week really sticks out to you, you now have like a foundation if you want to do much deeper, like academic, more academic research and looking into it and further reading and all of that. But that's definitely, as far as knowledge sources go, especially for new witches, definitely WBAH because, again, because of the sustainability of it.

Kim: Who or what would you say are the three biggest influences on your practice?

Hannah: Yoga is the obvious one. And I would call out and say that that includes Rumi poetry, which is in its own way a part of bhakti yoga. That's definitely the biggest one. Second would be nature as a whole, but specifically for me the forest and the ocean. And then third would be writing.

Kim: Do you have advice for the brand new, the brand new witch. They just started thinking, "Hey, maybe I want to be a witch!" and they clicked on this podcast. What advice do you have for them?

Hannah: I think I would just reiterate two things that have come up in this episode already. The first being, it happens at the rate it happens, so take your time and be compassionate with yourself and with others. And that your personal power isn't necessarily full control over everything, but rather control over how you experience everything.

Kim: For some reason, I thought you were going to say the practice doesn't have pretty. TM. 

Hannah: Practice doesn't have to be pretty?

Kim:  Or whatever it was. I was like, also this. 

Hannah: Also that. (both laugh) On the back.

Kim: Who do you think I should have on the show? 

Hannah: Okay, I don't have a specific name off the top of my head, which I know is so unhelpful, I'm sorry, but I...

Kim: You are fired.

Hannah (laughs) I would love to hear from any Indigenous practitioners.

KIm: Me too.

Hannah: From anywhere.

Kim: Yes.

Hannah: From anywhere, especially for like...

Kim: Where you are?

Hannah: Family... Well, that would be dope! Yeah! But especially for speaking about like family or more personal ways of practicing that are maybe less known about or talked about in the popular world of yoga, and like in conversations about it. So like the things that are... obviously not if it's a closed practice, like only if they're open to teaching and sharing about it, but the stuff that's not published as much or not published anywhere that's more of like, it's known because it was whispered from parent to child a thousand times kind of thing and that passed down wisdom. There's so much like unknown to be curious about. And I also just think like Indigenous practitioners should be like present more in all of these conversations and...

Kim: I agree. If you're listening, and that's you, please email me, youraveragewitchpodcast at gmail.com. Because I don't know how to reach out to you if I don't know who you are or where you are. Please, please. I know that's putting the effort and the labor on you and I apologize. Or if you're not that person yourself, but you know someone who is, please email me and I'll email them.

Hannah:  Yeah. That would be amazing. 

Kim: Yeah, I would love that. Is there anything else that you wanted to bring up? Anything that I didn't ask you or anything that you wanted to ask me?

Hannah: I don't have anything that I wanted to say and didn't, I think. We went on plenty of tangents. I guess... Like I said at the start of the episode, I just started my YouTube channel, so there's not a lot on there yet. But I have so many ideas and plans and things getting posted all the time, from like ritual walkthroughs, to philosophy talks, and all guided meditations, all kinds of stuff. And yoga classes, and it's all going to be free on YouTube. So I know that the listeners of this podcast and the community that you've built, Kim, is like an amazing community. So if that sounds appealing to anyone listening, I know if like anyone trickled over to YouTube from here, it would be really meaningful and good people. And again, it's free because I want it to be really accessible to anybody who wants it. And that channel is youtube.com/@HannahJoslin. I'm also on Instagram at myco.hannah, M-Y-C-O dot Hannah, and TikTok at Hannah M. Joslin.

Kim: Links will be in the show notes and when the YouTube version comes out, it will also be in... whatever the thing is on YouTube.

Hannah: Description, maybe?

Kim: Yeah, that thing. (both laugh)

Hannah: Yeah.

Kim: Finally, the last two things. Number one, would you please recommend something to the listeners?

Hannah: Anything?

Kim: Mm-hmmm.

Hannah: I would recommend, if you are not a yogi, giving yoga a second chance or deeper look if you have tried it before. Particularly at how many parts of it are there, and how closely related so many of its principles are to witchcraft, and see if it is something that would be beneficial to you and your practice. Because I believe it would be for pretty much everyone, and the issue is that people, the Western standard of it is, again, such a small snapshot of the physical practice. And there's so much more to it that people, that a lot of people could learn and benefit from if they look at it deeper.

Kim: It's not just being bendy.

Hannah: Yeah. (laughs) Of, of, I think of the 196 yoga sutras, I think three of them, or there's only like three mentions of asana of the physical version, physical practice of yoga.

Kim: Now the last thing is, please tell me a story. 

Hannah: A funny story?

Kim: Preferably, well, yeah. to be, I would like, my favorite kinds of stories are things that actually happened to the person telling it. And it's usually something that would be told at a family reunion, or around a campfire out with your friends, or everybody's over at your place on Saturday night, and you're finished with whatever you did as the main gathering and now everybody's just hanging out. That story.

Hannah: Okay. I, hopefully this is doubly interesting, because I know some Anahatas and WBAH people have been keeping up with my story of having just moved here, and spending the last two years in a different place and how difficult that was. So I grew up in California. I grew up in LA. I went to college on the central coast of California. I worked in Northern California in the Bay for a while. The whole state is my home. I know it. It's familiar. And it's also where I had always, always been, save for a few like trips, but it's like the only place I've lived. In 2020, which is around when I met Raaka, we decided that we want to explore and live somewhere new. The problem was, Raaka's been fucking everywhere. They've been everywhere, and I've been nowhere. So the goal was to find a place that she, their pronouns are any, by the way, so that's why I swap between she and they. She, the goal was to find somewhere that she had actually not been, or been and really liked, and then a place that I had not been, which was everywhere, and would hopefully like. So we had all of these different things we were considering, like access to nature and cost of living and all of that, and we ended up going to Austin, Texas. There were a lot of reasons why Austin, Texas was not right for me, that we couldn't have known until we tried it. But those, I'm just realizing this maybe isn't that fun of a story, but it's also not depressing. I promise it's good in the end. (Kim laughs) We were there over two years, and I'm not being dramatic when I say I have never been less myself, less in tune with my practice, and just like unhappy most of the time despite my best efforts to not be that way. And this is not me bashing on Texas, like a lot of my feelings are due to personal preference for sure, but it stifled me as a person and as a witch more than I even knew was possible at all. And it made me realize how important close accessibility to nature is important for not just like myself and my wellbeing, but my practice as a witch. And that was something that I really took for granted in California that I like didn't even know was part of it. So like, I think it... I felt like such a failure while I was living there, because I know there are witches all up in Austin, and I know that people really love it there, and there are probably witches that feel most connected when they're with their friends, or with a coven, and listening to music and going to shows and things like that. And I think that can be really powerful, but that's not how I feel most connected. And what I really needed was that accessibility to nature. Some people are going to be like, a river runs through Austin. Like, what are you talking about? Like, it goes right through downtown Austin. The things I discovered made it hard, anyways, was that you can't swim, you have to pay for parking, it's really crowded, and I just had, for a lot of different reasons, that being the biggest one, I had a really hard time feeling like I could fit in there. And I like gave it my best shot for such a long time. I really tried to lean into the change and embrace it, and like find the beauty, and after two years I just accepted that I failed, and that maybe it just wasn't my place. And that's okay. Again, I'm really not trying to hate on Texas, just personally for me it was not not my place. So fast forward, that was very, not beginning of 2020 but like mid 2020. Fast forward to eight weeks ago-ish, we just moved to Oregon, which I had also never lived before, but Raaka has. I was so scared moving here, because I was afraid. I was like, what if I can't make it anywhere but California? And I only found that out because I left California. That would suck, because that's like kind of boring to be in, I don't know, to be in one place forever, at least to me, and Raaka doesn't want to live in California. I was really scared because Austin was the first time I moved across state lines, and it went so poorly. But I am in love here, and like honestly, on my way to being a whole other person, and feeling so much more connected to the earth, and to the univers,e and to my practice here. And I know, look. I know it's only been two months, but this is so much more my place. I have fucking moths in my yard. There are wild turkeys in my neighborhood, I'm a 10-minute walk from multiple trailheads. And I go into town and I, like, just last weekend, farmers markets are my love language. I went to a farmers market and I see people with fucking tarot tattoos left and right, and blue hair, and trans activist protests, and signs that say this is indigenous land, and buskers, and it's just so much more my place and I just got here. And I know that already in comparison to Austin. And honestly, even in comparison to California, even though that will always be my like first home. And I guess, yeah, we're literally, what is it, April 14th? It's been (laughs) oh my god, it has been eight weeks to the day, I'm just realizing. And yeah.I'm just loving it, and I'm so grateful. And I know that was kind of an anticlimactic story but the my conclusion, my lesson for anybody, is that you can move to or away from a place based on vibe, and do not be ashamed of that. Because it is a personal vibe match that it has to be. And you never know how it might affect your practice, and you'll never know until you explore and find out for yourself. So even if you aren't in your place right now, or necessarily have the means to move, I know you'll find it. And in the meantime, if you haven't found your place, you can find your people. And that's the beauty of things like this podcast, and current technologies that we can have fully virtual friend groups, and covens, really, and whatnot. And yeah, I just feel lucky to have experienced all of it, as hard as those two plus years in Austin were.

Kim: But also come to Anahatas everyone. Tickets are on sale now. 

Hannah: Come to Anahata's, woo!

Kim: Because that's how you get to know how other people feel about where they live and where you can try.

Hannah: And visit, probably. Test the waters. Make new friends. Come to Anahata's!

Kim: Well thank you for being on the show.

Hannah: Thank you so much for having me.

Kim: And I will see you in five months.

Hannah: (gasps) Five months! Is it actually that close?

Kim: I think so.

Hannah: Yeah, it is. Wow! 

Kim: Wheeee!

Hannah: Wheee!

Kim: Okay, then I'll see you on the internet until then.

Hannah: Okay.

Kim: Okay, then. Bye.

Hannah: Bye, thank you!

Kim: Thank you.

Hannah: (fade in) ...this morning, and she was just talking about how much she wants to be a cryptid. Just a forest cryptid.

Kim:They're... they sound like a good time.

Hannah: Yeah.

Kim: Nobody catches them. They do whatever the hell they want.

Hannah: Mm-hmm.

Kim: Hell yes! Sounds like the life.

Hannah: Occasionally a picture? Yeah.

Kim: Just enough to fuck with people. And you wear a costume.

Hannah: Mm-hmm.

Kim: So they really have no idea what you look like.

Hannah: That should be something at Anahata's this year, it's like a cryptid night. We all just fucking run into the forest in our different getups.

Kim: I think that would be dangerous.

Hannah: (laughs) I mean, not at full speed by the river.

Kim: Yeah, but whatever's there doesn't really... (fade out)

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