Patti Black. Wild Witches, Queens & Crones

Happy Yule! In this episode I'm talking to Patti of the Wild Witches, Queens and Crones podcast. We talked about goddesses, skyclad ritual, and of course, community.

Blackbird Magick

Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories, and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Clever Kim's Curios. I hope you had a lovely solstice and that Yule is treating you well. Hive House did a gift exchange and my witch switcher got me the fun skull mason jars that I wanted. Thank you, Melissa. I had, they all broke. I had, I bought two sets of four throughout my life. And one always arrived broken. And then eventually the other three also got broken because I think the glass is not tempered like real mason jars. But all of these got here intact and I'm very pleased and now I can have my morning caffeine in with my thumb jammed into a skull's eye socket. I appreciate it. In this episode I'm talking to Patti of the Wild Witches, Queens and Crones podcast. We talked about goddesses, skyclad ritual, and of course community. Now let's get to the stories.

Kim: Patti, welcome to the show.

Patti: Thank you, thanks for having me.

Kim: Thank you for being here and for putting up with schedule changes and then the time change and then etc. Can you please let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you?

Patti: Yeah, I am Patti Black. I run Blackbird Magic. So that's at www.blackbirdmagick.com. I spell magic with a CK on that. And I teach magical classes and witchcraft courses online and in my local hood. And I have a podcast called Wild Witches, Queens and Crones. It was formerly Witch and Goddess. So my episodes do not come out regularly. And I focus on goddesses, their lore, how to connect with them, how they can be interacted with or involved in a specific witchcraft practice. But lately, I'm more intentionally exploring, you know, magical activism, themes of personal liberation, especially from like patriarchal conditioning, hence the name change. So it's just more authentically about things that I wanna talk about and not censoring myself as much. So for people who have religious trauma or if you've experienced abuse of different kinds, if you're just sick and fucking tired of old white cishet men, then you might enjoy this. So I also...

Kim: Who could be tired of that?

Patti: Right? Yeah. So I've also kind of unintentionally started professional spellcasting for private clients who are not magical folks. So for magical people, I love to teach witchcraft and help people get a practice that they love. But I do have some private clients now, which I didn't ever anticipate on doing, but you know. So yeah, and people can find me on Facebook as Patti Black and my page Wild Witch Magical Tips and Truths. On Instagram, I'm at Wild Witches Queens Crones. So.

Kim: And if you check the show notes, the linktree will be in them and you can just click away and find out where she is all over the place.

Patti: Awesome.

Kim: So what does it mean to you when you call yourself a witch?

Patti: So one of the things I love about witchcraft is that, you know, that title can mean different things to different people and all of those meanings are really personal. There's the standard, you know, anyone who practices witchcraft and chooses to label themselves as a witch is a witch. I agree with that. But I also think there's, you know, this deeper and more impactful meaning and even a responsibility, not to get too heavy with that, but you know, we know witch is a heavily loaded word and people who practice magic could choose to take on a lot of different titles, you know, mystic, magician, occultist, sorceress. So the choice to call yourself a witch is really intentional. And those of us who do so, I think, recognize that there's a lot of power in that title. But where does that power come from? I think it comes from and on the backs and the shoulders of everyone who's been persecuted, abused, or even killed, not just as witches, but as accused witches, for daring to live outside, you know, the acceptable boundaries of society. Everyone who's other, you know-

Kim: Having some nice land that Farmer Johnson wants.

Patti: Yeah, yeah. Being too intelligent, you know. The ability to do math, or read...

Kim: I can read... (both laugh)

Patti: Right? Yeah. So, you know, people who had different abilities or different appearances, you know. I believe that as witches, we're kin to all of these outsiders and marginalized folks. We lived on the outskirts of communities. And so if we choose to take on that mantle, and that kind of legacy of power, I really think we have a responsibility to use our influence and whatever power we take from that to look out for and take up for others who are marginalized, oppressed, outsiders. I really think that's one of the true legacies of witchcraft. And I know I'm getting kind of heavy right here at the beginning, but I just think being on the ground, on the front lines, helping the desperate, I think that includes helping ourselves as well. I don't believe that we have to struggle and live hand to mouth. I think we're better advocates and helpers when we are well and healthy as well, so.

Kim: I like the idea of if you choose to take on the title, for want of a better word, of witch, you also take the responsibility of being a witch. I like that. I'm paraphrasing you. That's what I heard you say.

Patti: No, I do. Yeah. That's what I believe more and more. It's fun. Like, witchcraft is hella fun and I love it.

Kim: Learning stuff and getting results that isn't just like ash, it'll always sign me up.

Patti: Fuck yes.

Kim: Would you say you have a family history with witchcraft or magic in any way?

Patti: You know, no, I am adopted and I was raised in a really devout Protestant home. So there was no witchcraft to the extent that at a young age, we couldn't watch the Smurfs anymore if you know what the Smurfs are-

Kim: Wow!

Patti: ...because Gargamel was a wizard. Um, my sister was gifted a She-Ra. Do you remember She-Ra, the Princess of Power?

Kim: Yes.

Patti: Her action figure for her birthday, and my mom made her give it back because there's no power...

Kim: She-Ra was amazing. She was like an icon for women and girls.

Patti: Right? She was a princess of power, and there's no power outside of Jesus Christ, according to my mom. 

Kim: Especially for women, I'm sure. 

Patti: Yes, exactly. So I'm sure the bikini didn't help either. (both laugh)

Kim: Too many boobs.

Patti:  But yeah, for context, that's kind of the context I was raised in. So if anything, the lack of magic and mysticism in my childhood, I think probably pushed me more towards mysticism because I missed that. I wanted that. My mom did speak in tongues a lot when she was praying really urgently and I witnessed that all the time as a kid. So she was definitely channeling something. But, you know, I used to feel a little inadequate because I didn't have any witchcraft or obvious magic in my origin story. But I look back and it really hasn't held me back at all. It hasn't been an obstacle to a really effective and rewarding practice. So, you know, for anybody who doesn't have that obvious magical background, it doesn't matter. You are absolutely no less of a witch.

Kim: Can you introduce us to your practice? Like, do you have any consistent rituals or little, I don't know, daily things that you do?

Pattie: I do. I try to do them daily. Before I started working with Jason Miller's Sorcery of Hecate practice about four years ago, before that I was a little bit more inconsistent. It was just kind of where my intuition took me every day. But with that practice there is a minimum practice that you do every day and you can't talk about it a lot because there's like a vow of silence about it that you take when you go into the course but it can range anywhere from a really simple daily chant to a full-on ritual that you do and with most things the more energy you put into it the more you get out of it but that has developed some discipline for me because other than that, outside of that practice, my witchcraft is very intuitive. I'm a Pisces rising, so I just kind of do whatever the fuck I want and it's all over the place. I would say eclectic, but I hate that that's like code for colonized now, so I do my best to decolonize my practice and not appropriate, but it's a lot of candles, it's a lot of rituals that I make up, it is my art, I infuse ritual into some of my art pieces and make portrait sigils for different things, and enchant my art pieces as spells and lots of candles, lots of candles.

Kim: Would you say that witchcraft has changed your life?

Patti: Absolutely. I think that I might be a completely different person without witchcraft. I started practicing when I was 21, and out of this need for something. I wanted mysticism and mystery in my life and I wanted, honestly, I wanted something to replace Christianity because that obviously didn't fit into my life. And so at first I thought I was just gonna plug witchcraft in, and that's not what happened, it's completely different than that. But it has the content that you encounter is so much more empowering, honestly, than anything that I think you encounter in mainstream media, and especially, you know, more conservative religions and spiritualities. And also the people that I have been around and influenced by are so much more, and of course, a lot of them are women, and so that's been helpful for me, so much more bold, unapologetic, living their own truth. Those influences I did not get in my childhood, and I wasn't getting them, I've never gotten them in my career, in my mainstream life. Those things I have only found through interacting with other witches and through the content and the books that I read and, you know, the messages of empower yourself, break free from this, do this, do that. I don't know who I would be without witchcraft. I really don't.

Kim: I relate to that.

Patti: Yeah.

Kim: What would you say is the biggest motivator in your practice, and has it changed since you were 21?

Patti: Oh gosh. Right now what motivates me is that I just love doing it. When I come into, I'm lucky enough to have a quote-unquote office where I do my work and when I come in here I get distracted from some of the administrative tasks that I need to do because I see all my plants and my cool witch shit and I'm like, you know, I should really do this spell today. (laugh) I love doing it, and I love that it makes my life better. It is, it's not just me painting a picture, which I love doing my art, but when I get to express myself with witchcraft, there are tangible beneficial results in my life. And so that's even better. When I was 21, when I first started, yeah, it's different. In the beginning, I was really motivated by this curiosity and this fascination. I wanted to learn all of the stuff. And of course, I'll never be able to learn all of the stuff. But as I've learned more of it, you know, that intense curiosity has dimmed a little bit and it's just been replaced by, I love doing this. In the beginning, another motivator for that was that I really wanted that witch identity. I thought that it was going to help make me feel more empowered and stronger. And it has, but seeking the identity rather than the practice slowed me down a little bit. It was a distraction. And ironically, I found the identity and feel much more like a witch these days when I stopped worrying about that and just started practicing, and just doing the spells, and doing the things I wanted to do.

Kim: That is interesting! You know how, when you pluck a guitar string and you can just hear it for a long time?

Patti: Mhmmm.

Kim: That idea of identity versus practice as to how... that's.... ooo, like it. (laughs)

Patti: Good, thanks.

Kim: Also, here's a random question: do you record in your witch space?

Patti: Do I record my ritual settings?

Kim: No, your podcast.

Patti: No.

Kim: Because mine is literally on the complete opposite end of the house, but I kind of think maybe it would be better if I was in my witch space or brought some of my witch stuff into here.

Patti: So far, I'm really looking to upgrade my setup, but my setup for my podcast has been, because I use Anchor, has been me on my phone in my bedroom closet with a lot of blankets around me. So not a comfortable situation, but hopefully now that I'm getting, you know, upgrading my tech and stuff, I will be recording in here and I don't know, like, will the vibes change the podcast in a cool way? I hope so, because there's definitely a lot of energy in this room. So my husband told me the other day, and he's such a cynic, but he said from the couch you can kind of see into the hallway to where you would come out of my office. And he said (laughs) he saw little black tribbles coming out of my office space, like from Star Trek.

Kim: Hmmm. (Patti laughs) Like soot sprites?

Patti: Yeah, it's what it sounds like.

Kim: Is that what they are, those little things from that movie?

Patti: Yeah, yeah, that's what it sounded like to me.

Kim: Huh. What do you have going on crawling out of your room? (laughs)

Patti: You know, you really, with the Hecate stuff, which is what happens in here a lot, you invoke the Restless Dead who follow her. 

Kim: And they look like little tribbles? (laughs)

Patti: Well, to my husband they do. And then a couple days later he said, don't worry, I saw the tribbles going back into your room. (laughs)

Kim: (doubtfully) Oh, ummm... okay...

Patti: He's such a cynic. And he supposedly doesn't believe in ghosts or spirits. And he's an atheist. But, yeah, he picks up on stuff sometimes.

Kim: That's interesting. Yeah, I am also in a closet, but I'm surrounded by clothes, not blankets. (laughs)

Patti: Yeah, yeah. (laughs) Gotta do what works.

Kim: What do you do about impostor syndrome?

Patti: Well, I feel like just recently, in the past few years, I am better able to, first of all even recognize when it's affecting me because for a lot of years I didn't necessarily clue into that, and realize that it was holding me back. So now I kind of see it happening and I work through it. And not say I like I process through it, but I like whatever the the imposter syndrome is coming up to stop me from doing I just do it. And not like as boldly as that sounds, like I do it while my head is like, can you do this? Are you qualified to do this? You know, all the other people are doing it better. But I still just do the thing. And in my head, I remind myself that, hey, almost everyone struggles with this. Which is hard to believe sometimes, but the people that we respect the most, apparently, although it's hard to believe, still have these thoughts of not being good enough or faking it. So that helps.

Kim: And getting caught.

Patti: Yeah, getting caught out as an imposter, yeah. And I also tend to silently say, fuck the haters, you know, because I'm imagining this arena full of people judging me and just telling them to f off helps me. Do you have very much Aries in your chart?

Patti: You know, I don't think I do.  I'm a Sagittarius sun-

Kim: Well where's it coming from? All this big- oh, okay. (both laugh) Because I'm getting big FU energy from you just as a whole. (thumping sounds) Oops, I forgot we're still recording the regular section and not the Patreon, so I'm jumping around. Sorry, everyone. (both laugh) When I get excited, I make a bunch of racket. What would you say is your biggest struggle when it comes to your practice?

Patti: That I can't do everything I want to. That I'm not going to be able to master everything.

Kim: That's rude.

Patti: It is rude! I can't master, I may not master anything.

Kim: That's super rude.

Patti: (laughs) But that what I am doing fills my time wonderfully and, you know, that it is, I try to remind myself that it's so rewarding. I get overwhelmed with all the things I want to do, and all the ideas I have, and projects that I want to take on with my personal practice, and with courses that I want to produce and put out there, and things like that. And yeah, I don't have enough fire energy in my chart to make me a go, go, go person. I'm a Taurus moon, so I like to rest and chill and take care of myself.  

Kim: (laughs) Eyyyy, right. I approve.

Patti: (laughs) Yeah. So, it bums me out, but it bums me out while I'm on the couch resting and taking care of myself.

Kim: Good for you.

Patti: (laughs) Thanks.

Kim: You can handle it when you're in prone.

Patti: Right.

Kim: How you gonna knock me down? I'm already down, bitch! What! (both laugh)

Patti: Exactly. So take that! (laughs

Kim: What brings you the most joy in your practice?

Patti: Teaching. Sharing witchcraft with beginners or anybody who's... Sharing a new practice with somebody who just hasn't done that yet, no matter how experienced they are. Sharing things that get other people excited about practicing, and that maybe motivate them to actually get to their altars and do the stuff, because that's not always easy. And if I can share something that helps people to experience their own magic and feel empowered, like, that's the shit. Like, that's the best.

Kim: What would you say is your biggest fear in witchcraft?

Patti: So for the most part, this question kind of stumps me because I feel like witchcraft has empowered me and made me so much less fearful than I was. I was a pretty timid kid and it has really made me realize that I can handle almost anything, but something that does come up on my mind sometimes is, you know, at the very end of life when I'm really old and, you know, maybe incapacitated in several ways and reliant on other people, like there's this fear that or worry that I don't try to indulge or think about too much, but like, what if they take away all my tools? Or what if I don't have access to an altar, or what if I don't have access to go outside and just like be on the earth and around the trees? So whatever happens, I hope that... I know I can do all of my practice things in my head. I know that I don't need any of the tools but I like that tangible stuff. I hope that I am still able to to get out there. I actually told my kiddo that when I am near the end, just to take me in a wheelchair out into like the deep, deep woods and just kind of like tip me out into the moss and let nature do its job. Like that's my retirement plan. So.

Kim: Yeah. I don't necessarily know that I want that for myself, but I approve of the thought. (laughs)

Patti: Like maybe give me some prescriptions or something to ease it, but yeah. (laughs)

Kim: (laughing) That's when I want that street fentanyl. No other time, but... (laughs)

Patti: Yes! When I am in a soft bed of moss. Those pictures of the foxes who've passed away in a bed of moss, and it's just there's skeletons surrounded by moss... Like that's beautiful, and it looks so restful. (laughs)

Kim: Yes.

Patti: Yeah.

Kim: What is something that you did early in your practice that you don't do anymore, and why don't you do it?

Patti: (laughs) Okay, so my very first rituals that I did in my first solo apartment. I was reading like Scott Cunningham and things like that and which, you know, a lot of good material in there, but I thought that I had to do things sky-clad and so I was doing my first ritual (Kim laughs) sky-clad in my little shag carpeted apartment. I don't do that anymore because it's cold and weird. (both laugh) And also, if you guys want a really cool image that's not cool at all, but one way that this ritual I was using suggested to raise energy was to run in circles. (laughs)

Kim: (shrieklaughs) In an apartment. 

Patti: Imagine me running in circles clockwise, sky-clockwise. (laughs)

Kim: Just around the coffee table.

Patti: Yeah, pretty much is what I was doing.

Kim: And like at one point you have to turn sideways and sidestep. (laughing)

Patti: I'm sure. And those corners, they're sharp! (laughs) But yeah. (laughs) So I used to also handwrite my scripts and procedures for my rituals. I don't do that anymore. I don't write it out. Partly because I know the stuff and I know what I want to do a lot better, but I also wing it a lot, and that's pretty magical. So yeah.

Kim: I think I, yeah, I think I did that, and don't do that.

Patti: Mhmmm.

Kim: Now I only write it down if I'm going to share it with somebody else.

Patti: Yeah, yeah. I type up a lot of my rituals because I share them in my courses and things, but as a general rule for my personal use, no, not anymore.

Kim: What is your favorite tool in your practice and why? How do you use it? And it does not have to be a physical object.

Patti: All right, so I've got to cheat a little bit on this and just say my whole altar, my main altar, because it's a place of power and I use that energy that really accumulates there. I, you know, I call on a lot of spirits there and that they feel close there. And so it's like already brimming with magic when I go to sit down. And yeah, so it's also it's a physical reminder to practice when I see it. But it's also, as a Taurus moon, I love seeing all my pretty things. And so they're all spread out on, because I have a lot of space on this altar, and so I can see all of my lovely things that I love, and they remind me to use them. And of all the things, all the projects I have worked on, and it's a spot of inspiration, honestly.

Kim: It never occurred to me to consider an altar a battery, but that is cool. I like that very much. If you can only recommend one source of info to a new witch, what do you recommend?

Patti: That one is tricky, because I learned everything by reading a bunch of books. So my first thing would be like, you know, read as much as you can get your hands on. But also for the sake of this question, I think it is really helpful and something that I wish I had when I was starting, was information on psychic development. Because I really believe that's a skill that everybody has to a certain extent, that it's a muscle that we can build. And you know, some people are super adept at it already and I'm not one of those people, but I have been able to strengthen that muscle and it has very much helped my practice. So I think Matt Auryn's book, Psychic Witch, is really helpful for that. There's information in other sources, but he really compiles a lot of it and gives really practical, approachable exercises in there that help. And yeah, you don't have to become a professional medium or channeler, but you can strengthen that muscle a little bit, and it will help you perceive the energy at your altar. It will help you understand guidance and intuitive hits that you get and just help you recognize them. And so I find that invaluable. I wish I had had that at the very beginning.

Kim: I knew his book was going to come up when you said psychic energy, or...

Patti: Yeah.

Kim: ... whatever term you used I was like oh you know what? I must be psychic. (laughs)

Patti: See? It's happening already!

Kim: How do you pull yourself out of a magical slump?

Patti: So I used to get down on myself or just, you know, back in my 20s, I even like walked away from my practice a little bit at those times because I didn't feel magical. But these days, I just know that it's cyclical, that I have times when I feel super motivated and times when I don't. And what happens for me a lot is that I don't make time for my art very much. And usually when my magical practice takes a downturn, my inspiration and my itchiness to get my hands on my paints and markers and things picks up. And so I just kind of throw myself into art and drawing, and just let it pass, give myself some grace, and then get back into it. With my professional clients, I do have to push through it if I have private gigs booked, and that helps too, just making myself get to my altar, because once I'm there, it does tend to recharge me. But yeah, I just try to remind myself this is, it's a cycle. It ebbs and flows, so.

Kim: Do you ever work with other witches? I do. I get to interact with a lot of people in the online courses that I do, and so that's wonderful. But I also, in the past year or so, have a very small group of trusted witches that I met through my courses. And we get together, well not get together because we're all over the country, but we connect and plan strategic magical activism works, especially around different election cycles and important times. And we try to put all of our magical weight into strategic things that can make a difference. And it feels really good to do that. I think magic is an influence on things. And there are lots of other influences on things in a practical manner. And so it's not going to necessarily, especially in really big situations that are being affected by other people's wants and desires, one person's spell isn't necessarily going to turn the tide. But if we can take our magical weight and expand it and put it on a weak area of something that we want to manifest and really press on that weak link, then we can take systems down, we can fuck up somebody's election, we can do things like that. And yeah, I'm all about it. So anyway, yeah, I love working with them on that and it feels really good to have that planning, and that like-mindedness. I also do local rituals. One of my friends has a shop, a really amazing shop. And so I will lead seasonal rituals and things like that there and get the community there. We're not like an organized coven in any way, but it is nice to get people together and engage in ritual.

Kim: Well, speaking of community, is there anything you wish was discussed more in the witch community?

Patti: What's been on my mind lately, a lot, is that being a witch- again, my opinion. Being a witch, to practice magic and become a witch is to say, in some way, I'm sovereign. I have the authority to influence my world, and maybe even the things around me. And that might sound narcissistic or arrogant. But if we look at the mundane things, you know, nobody else out there is shying away from using whatever authority and influence they have, whether it's being an advertising or political influence, or influencing things with their great wealth. That is a very powerful, those are very powerful influences. And those people are not holding back because they feel ethically gray about it. Right? And so I wish that we would... (sighs) I wish that we would stop asking for permission to use our magic. I wish that we would say, you know what? I am drawn to this practice that kind of assumes a certain kind of personal power, and I'm drawn to that for a reason, and so I'm gonna be a little bit more bold about using that power. I'm not saying don't be responsible. I'm saying you know, do divination, see if this feels right for you. Weigh it, be responsible. Do things mindfully. But also, you don't have to get permission from an outside source to use your magic. Are you always going to do the right thing? No. I mean, I think that's part of being a human. I think that it's going to be messy and complicated and we're going to do things that we regret. But I think in the long run, as a magical person, you're going to have a bigger and more positive impact on the world by using the magic that you've been given, than by sitting on your hands and thinking, I don't know if I should, I don't know if I should do this. Does that sound grumpy? I don't know.

Kim: Yeah but so what? We should be grumpy about it!

Patti: Yeah! I just hate to see witches sit on their hands and not use their magic because they feel like somebody's gonna come by and wave a magic wand and say yes you're a true witch and you can go do what you want. No, you have to give yourself the authority. That's what I think. 

Kim: (pauses) Here, everybody, I give you the authority. You're a witch now. Tadaa! Go fuck shit up!

Patti: Yes, yes! Everybody else is! I think the world would be better if more witches were fucking shit up!

Kim: Hell yeah! And entertaining for me, so...

Patti: Yass! (both laugh)

Kim: ...get on that. (laughs) Think of the three biggest influences on your practice. Doesn't have to be people, it can be ideas or books or like a show, whatever. It can be people, but it doesnt' have to be. Your pet, whatever.

Patti: Okay.

Kim: What would you thank them for?

Patti: All right. So I am no contact with my mom and my family, but in that roundabout way, she has been a compelling force for me to practice witchcraft. And she also made me realize at a young age that I need feminism. And she really showed me with the desperation of her sad life that, you know, how shit the church can be to women. And so that was a huge influence on me saying, I got to go the exact opposite way. I gotta get as far away from this as I can. I would also say that Jason Miller's books, because they're so practical and reasonable, and he has a lot of magical insight that is in a style that you don't find in other books... The other books are great, but his stuff is really accessible and refreshing. And his Sorcery of Hecate course, which I talked about earlier, has been really influential for me. And my main goddesses, I work with goddesses a lot, Morgan Le Fay is my primary goddess and Hekate is, you know, my second. And they really influenced me. They give me inspiration, they, you know, speaking of telling people to fuck shit up, like this idea that we don't need permission. It came from working with Hekate. That's like the gnosis and the message I get from her the most is, why are you asking me for permission? You are a witch and so you get to do, you know, you've got to judge what's right to do. So it's a responsibility and it's, it's, um, yeah, I hate to say permission, but she did kind of give me that permission or made me feel like I had that. Does that make sense?

Kim: Yes.

Patti:  And then I ran with it. (both laugh)

Kim: Do you have advice for anybody just starting out that you haven't already given?

Patti: I may have said it or hinted at it a little bit already, but I think to just do the thing, to practice. I spent my first year of witchcraft reading all the books, with a huge stack of books, and it took me a while to work up to actually doing that first sky-clad ritual. (laughs) And the first, I would say for me, the first few rituals and spells felt weird. It felt strange. It felt like I was play-acting and I was like, you know, if anybody was looking in the window at me right now I would be super embarrassed at what I'm doing. But my advice would be to, if you're having those feelings, just work through it. Just keep doing it. And the more you get used to the processes and things like that, the more you will feel that magic working through you. And it will not feel silly anymore. It will feel the exact opposite. And do the magic. No matter how weird and awkward it feels, you've got to work through that. And you're not going to work through it if you're just reading the books.

Kim: I feel like if I'm doing something, if I'm like following along and doing a spell out of a book or off the internet or wherever, something that someone else did, that I still feel like I'm playacting. But if I wrote it myself, then I don't have that, I don't know if I'm doing this right. I don't have that.

Patti: Yeah, yeah.

Kim: But I know you have to follow the recipe before you learn to cook.

Patti: Yeah.

Kim: Just get through the recipe part, y'all! (both laugh)

Patti: I'm a huge advocate for taking existing spells and rituals and adjusting them to be more meaningful for you. Because if you, yeah, if you come across a spell that you're like, I want the outcome, but none of these actions really reverberate for me. They don't resonate for me. They don't feel meaningful to me. It's not going to work. Like you have to be moved. I feel you need to be moved by and inspired by the actions that you're taking, the words that you're saying. And so if that means adjusting it a little bit and changing it... I'm all for that. So. Or just writing your own. Yeah, I think a lot of people are intimidated by writing their own at first, but. 

Kim: Well you're going to start out by following the recipe and then subbing in...

Patti: Mhmmm.

Kim: ...mugwort for something else. Or whatever. (laughs)

Patti: And then you learn how the recipes are built and you know how to put all the pieces together on your own then.

Kim: And then you have your own recipe for fried chicken. (laughs)

Patti: Exactly.

Kim: Is there anything else that you wanted to bring up, or any questions that you had for me?

Patti: So my group, Wild Witches, Queens and Crones, is always open for new members and it is a fun group with a lot of community support. You get a ton of witchy education and inspiration for just 22 bucks a month. Yeah, I do three brand new classes or workshops every month. They're recorded, they're live and recorded, so you can attend live or you can catch the replay later. And then there's the library of all the previous lessons and workshops and a monthly office hour session so that we can discuss and answer any magical topics or questions that participants want. I do a blessing spell for all the members every month. And yeah, it's just a lot of fun and a lot of magical inspiration and education for all levels of practitioners every month. So yeah. Also, if you want to see more of my offers or connect with me more, I have coupons and things like that I post them in there and promotions are always in there so that's kind of like the inner circle for people who want to connect with me or learn more about what I offer, so yeah.

Kim: And if you've been in gigantic witch groups on Facebook, you guys know the ones I'm talking about, they're huge. Even if they're really good, they're huge. And if you want community and you want to feel like, oh, these people know me, this is the kind of small group you want to join.

Patti: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. You get to know people and I am very strict about like vetting members and making sure that we don't have any trolls in the group and things like that. Hate that. And when it's a small group, you have more ability to do that.

Kim: Yes. So the last thing that I ask of guests, I ask two things. Thing number one is please recommend something to the listeners. It does not have to be witch or metaphysical or supernatural related. It can be literally anything.

Patti: Like a practice, or like a product, or...

Kim:  Yeah, whatever you want, whatever you're into, whatever hits you this morning, hey this is really cool and I should recommend it.

Patti: Hmm. Oh my.

Kim: Like for me, it's the Crushmetric pen. That thing is fucking cool, y'all. (both laugh)

Patti: Um... (laughs) So, let me look at my messy desk in front of me and see.

Kim: Yes, wander around the room and think, ooh!

Patti:  Okay, so this is a little off topic, but... actually I've got two things here. Okay, so the first one is my mug that I'm drinking out of, and it is a big black mug, and it has what looks like the magician card from the Rider Waite tarot, but the magician is Robert Smith from The Cure, and he's got his hair and his red lipstick, and it is a magical thing to drink out of. I got this on Etsy a few years ago and I can't remember the name of the shop, but if you search Robert Smith mug or Cure mug, then you could probably find it. And it's a mug, but it's the most magical mug I've ever owned. And then the other thing that's right in front of me is a little stress ball squish. It's listed as a voodoo doll, of course, but it's a poppet. It's a squishy, hand-squishy poppet that's in white with a tiny little body and a big head that I got from Amazon, and they're like $6. And these are really great to make a poppet in a pinch. You can, I have just pinned somebody's photo over the face and then you can do it for, use it for whatever poppet needs you have. I like to make them out of clay too, but this works really fast in a pinch, and it's super cute.

Kim: That's neat!

Patti: Yeah, you can squeeze the shit out of it and you can paint it with paint markers and stuff if you didn't want to put a picture on it. Like, you can really personalize them.  (random sounds) Yeah, that sound was me squishing it. (kim laughs)So, yeah.

Kim: So the last thing is, please tell me a story.

Patti: Do you want a fun witchcraft story or me looking stupid story or?

Kim: Whatever you feel like telling.

Patti: Okay, well...

Kim: I'm literally open. I have had no stories told to me in like three months.

Patti: Aww!

Kim: I have very poor time understanding, so it may have been a week. I don't know, but it's been a minute. (both laugh)

Patti: Okay, so let me tell about why I am so into goddesses and work with them so much. When I first started practicing, I was very excited about the goddess idea, but I thought of them more as like archetypes that we could learn lessons from, and they are, they're very effective for that. And lots of people work with them effectively in that way. But I didn't think that they were actually spirits that I could interact with. And then I had, about seven or eight years ago, I had an experience where I was reading a book on goddesses and archangels and ascended masters. And I wouldn't really recommend that book anymore because it was by Doreen Virtue and you know she went. But I will say that I feel like having that book on my bedside just opened an opportunity. It definitely signaled to Spirit to start interacting with me because I had an interaction with Ganesha. But the first thing that happened that really just blew me away was I was in a very rough spot in my marriage at the time and I was just distraught by an interaction that my husband and I had had. Just distraught, in bed, alone, crying myself to sleep. And I just kind of in my head cried out to, um, uh, I cried out to Quan Yin because she was one of the goddesses in the book and she was said to be the goddess of compassion and comfort and that she answered all, all calls. And I was like, this is bullshit, but okay, here, Quan Yin, please take this pain away because I was just distraught and at the end of my rope. And within seconds I just felt this very physical balm of comfort and peace just wash over me. It was, I mean, of course emotionally calming, but also I felt it on a physical level as well, like bodily. And the, her, her presence was just undeniable. And so that was a real turning point for me with working with spirits, was this ability to like have someone hear me and interact with me. Yeah, and then not long after that I had, because before that I really had no interaction with spirit or psychic phenomenon really, I didn't really think that I had any ability to perceive those things. But I had another experience where I was in bed with my kiddo while they fell asleep and comforting them for some reason. I can't remember. I think he was just having a hard time falling asleep that night and just holding him and hoping he would fall asleep, you know, and being like, oh my gosh, please let this child just go to sleep so I can get out and go sleep in my bed. And I don't know what it was. I think it was either some type of guide or maybe an ancestor, but I felt a very distinct feminine presence put a hand on my back, just kind of like in comfort and solidarity and like, hey, you're not alone with this kid. I have your back too. Like you are supported in this role of supporting your kid. And it was just a really comforting, just a really comforting and very physical, tangible feeling of an actual hand on my back. And so those two things happening kind of at the same time, really turned my practice in a whole different direction. And they're still like just very special memories for me. Was that entertaining? 

Kim: Yes, that made me cry actually.

Patti: Aw! Yeah, it's pretty special.

Kim: Well, thank you for being on the show. Everybody be sure to...

Patti: Thank you for having me!

Kim: Thank you, thank you. Sorry. Everybody be sure to check out her linktree below. Go join her Facebook group so you can get you some community! And I will see you on the internet. okay bye! Now Patti...

Patti: Yes.

Kim: Welcome to Hive House! 

Patti:  Hi.

Kim: This is the part where I thump around and get up and I'm noisy. (laughs)

Patti: Awesome. (laughs)

Kim: The first thing we're gonna do is I'm gonna draw one of these Let's Get Deep cards. (fades out)

Patti: (fades in) ...but I was eating there and I bit into my hot dog. And I'm obviously not a vegan or a vegetarian, and... (sighs) I'm just gonna say there was an anomaly inside the hot dog. Um... (kim squeals and wheezes) I still don't know what it was. (laughs) And... (fades out)

To hear more of the members only episode head over to crepuscularconjuration.com. The monthly magic tier will give you access to the monthly magic Marco Polo group, the private Facebook group, and access to the written monthly spells. There's also crepuscular conjurations giving you bonus podcast episodes, coloring pages, guided meditation, spell crafting videos, printable downloads, and more. The free Witchy Wonderment level will give you a little sample of everything I just mentioned. You can also visit my shop, Clever Kim's Curios, to get spell boxes one at a time or by monthly subscription, intentional handcrafted jewelry that I make especially for witches, and handmade altar tools. You can even listen to the full Your Average Witch podcast library including show notes. Check it out at crepuscularconjuration.com. Thanks for listening to this episode of Your Average Witch. You can find us all around the internet on Instagram at YourAverageWitchPodcast, Facebook at Facebook.com slash groups slash Hive House, at YourAverageWitch.com and at your favorite podcast service. If you'd like to recommend someone for the podcast, like to be on it yourself, or if you'd like to advertise on the podcast, send an email to YourAverageWitchPodcast at gmail.com. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday.