Aaron Oberon, Part 2. Author, DungeonMaster, and Southern Witch
In this episode, I'm still talking to Aaron Oberon, in part 2 of our conversation. This time, Aaron tells us about why your practice should change, how to defeat imposter syndrome, and that yes, Florida actually *is* part of The South.
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Aaron Oberon, Part 2. Author, DungeonMaster, and Southern Witch
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CLEVER KIM
SEASON: 3
EPISODE: 35
Description
Transcript
Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories, and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Clever Kim's Curios. In this episode, I'm still talking to Aaron Oberon, in part 2 of our conversation. This time, Aaron tells us about why your practice should change, how to defeat imposter syndrome, and that yes, Florida actually *is* part of The South. Now let's get to the stories!
Aaron: (fades in) Memories are real, we're living in a simulation, Rapunzel is a hair monster that one, that has no life and will only consume you, much like a sun dew. How's your day going?
Kim: Wow. (laughs) Okay but what's the biggest motivator in your practice?
Aaron: (bursts into laughter) No, I love it. Yes, please. Yes, let's continue.
Kim: It's not often that somebody's more tangential than me, I'll tell you. (laughing)
Aaron: Oh, no, I knew. You said you were tangential and I laughed. I laughed because I was like...
Kim: Okay this is exciting.
Aaron: I don't know that I have like a single motivation in my practice other than to keep moving forward, right? And to continue to make a better life for myself and those around me. (sighs) I've been talking about story a lot and it isn't just because I love D&D, but it is because that the basis of my practice, my tradition, for me, myself, and I, is the keeping of story. And knowing when stories need to be told. So I operate often using trance states and in conjuration. So those are the two modes of communication I use for reaching spirits. Either I'm going to go to you, or you're going to come to me. But in either of those transactions, it is to swap stories. We often have this concept that names are power, and they are. They absolutely are, right? If we have a grimoiric practice, then there is this intense need and purpose behind the names of God. Elohim, El, Adonai, knowing these names so that you may call upon a spirit whose name you know. You are able to call the spirit because you know the name of the spirit. The way that the spirit works is, or the way that the spirit looks is only tangential. If you read the grimoires, they will appear to you in the form of X, Y, and Z, right? A child riding upon a lion, breathing sunflowers, whatever. Those descriptions, it's very clear that this is just a facade that they're putting in front of you, because you can change them. You can command them to take a new form that is pleasing to you, that doesn't scare you, or scare these pussies out in the fucking Victorian ages who were scared of a little lion-headed bat, oooo. Their forms are malleable. Their names and their experiences and their stories are not. These are the things that are fixed because we are nothing if not our names. And what is a name but a signifier of a much deeper story? There's something else there. If you know a name, you know how to call someone. If you know their story, you know how to connect to someone. If we want to take it in a much more malicious route, these conjuration practices often have us threatening spirits. And we're able to threaten them by the names of higher-ranking spirits, or God, Elohim, El, Adonai, all those things. If you know their name, you can call them out. If you know their story, you can blackmail them. So there's always this, again, it's witchcraft, there's always this double-sided edge to it. But my practice is not about blackmailing spirits. (both laugh) My practice is about the exchange of story, and the knowledge of one another and the sharing of self. The offering I make to spirits to create these bonds often comes in the form of creating art for them that gives them honor in a way that they might not always have. One of the things that I... It should go... It's kind of like a hidden secret, an open secret, is that I work with King Oberyn. My last name is Oberon, so there's a thing there. And one of the big things for me was, I don't know how familiar you are with Shakespeare, Elizabethan conjuration magic, but the depictions of Oberyn are, they're bad. It's not good art, it's objectively bad art. I know a lot of kids, like my niece and nephew could make way more like... this is a king of fairies, like y'all are out here really doing my boy dirty. So oftentimes my, the spirits that are more partial to conjuration than to me meeting them on their side of the fence, I will make these talismanic sigils, depictions. Things that are I think doing them more justice and I'm not just saying that because I'm pretty good at art, but because it is just something that I think has a little bit more care. Again I encourage everyone to go look up the original manuscripts of the Book of Oberyn. They did my boy dirty. Like it's bad. And he's hot, make him hot! Like come on guys. So the biggest motivator in my practice to actually tie it back and to actually have some sense of cohesion and purpose to this is to continue to listen. As ironic as it is that I am completely dominating this entire thing and talking incessantly, my practice is one of listening. It is one of recording, and holding story, and finding the deeper thing there. What goes beyond your name? What are you? What is your experience? What have you been through?
Kim: Has it changed from when you first started out?
Aaron: Massively. I started practicing witchcraft at 13 years old. I was bad at witchcraft. (laughs) I was, listen, I was watching Charmed. That was where I was getting the majority of my like magical information was watching fucking Charmed. Because I also was Baptist, and you couldn't get books about witchcraft. You couldn't gain access to these things. So there are some things that really honestly have stayed the core of who I am. Like a lot of my first spells were done with the Psalms. And somewhere in a box, somewhere in this home, I have my baptismal Psalm. So it's a little book, it's a little orange book, the same kind that you would get passed out to you at some kind of like revival. And in glitter gel, like silver glittery gel pen, I have my name and my baptismal date. And that was my first spell book. And to this day, the Psalms are where I turn to get a lot of incantations. If I'm not using the Psalms, I'm using the Carmina Gadelica, which I referenced earlier, by Alexander Carmichael, which is a collection of yada yada yada. So in that aspect, things have stayed the same, right? I didn't have access to spell books, so I used the Bible. Which, I mean, that in and of itself, that is the basis of folk magic across so many colonized lands. And beyond that, I was 13 years old. I wanted to be like Phoebe Halliwell. Okay? You did too, people. Don't lie to yourself.
Kim: I actually didn't watch Charmed until... what's the big thing that happened in 2020?!
Aaron: Oh, the pandemic? Just a little, you know, just a world-changing-
Kim: (laughs) I couldn't remember the word! But that's when I first watched Charmed.
Aaron: ...the panorama, the pizzeria, everyone calls it something different. I watched it as a kid and that was my, like, I remember, like, in the, I think it's the pilot episode where it's the only time they ever say Wiccan or something like that. I don't know. I was obsessed with it. That and the very first time I'd ever heard the word Wiccan was in Scooby-Doo and Zombie Island. Yes. No, no, no, no, not Scooby-Doo and Zo- Scooby Doo and the Witch's Ghost. Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost was the very first time I...
Kim: Scooby Doo?
Aaron: Mhmmm. In Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost, there is a girl group called the Hex Girls, which, first of all, great name. And the lead singer of the Hex Girls is half Wiccan on her mother's side, which I just adore. What a stupid thing.
Kim: Stahp! (laughs)
Aaron: And it's just giving me joy. But yeah, they talk about Wicca a lot. They talk about the... It's so wrong, but I love it. They talk about how this pilgrim woman was a Wiccan, which is a healer, not a witch, not an evil witch. She's a healer. She used herbs, and that's her book of shadows. Great stuff.
Kim: ... aright.
Aaron: Yeah, I know. It's no it's bad. It's bad. It's great. I love it.
Kim: And it's funny to me that Wicca is what they're using as like the scary thing.
Aaron: Well, no Wicca was the was the not witchcraft was the scary thing. You were either a witch or a Wiccan, there were two different things.
Kim: Well, I mean you've said that you, maybe I misunderstood earlier.
Aaron: Oh, yeah in my Baptist Church Wicca was evil.
Kim: Yeah.
Aaron: Yes.
Kim: That's wild.
Aaron: No, I know. The thing that all of us in the occult spaces are like, yeah, Wicca is like the gentlest like variation of what occultists are out here be doing. And then to the rest of the world, they're like, that's evil. Not to say that Wicca doesn't have its thorns too, of course it does. But the forward facing of it is very much that of the healing side of things. But my practice has changed dramatically outside of that aspect of using psalms and pop culture. Pop culture still very much influences me. I'm actually doing good witchcraft now. (laughs) It's not me taking an amethyst and like, I want to, when I touch this stone I will feel others feelings, like, because I wanted to fucking have superpowers like Phoebe Halliwell. My magic and my practice is very much oriented on spirits. I think it's impossible, I think it's a bad sign if your witchcraft from the time you were a teenager looks the same as it does now. If you started later in life and you started in a more secure place, you're practice is looking the same, not too worried about... If you were like me and you... I can't imagine any responsible 12-year-old who is like, I'm going to learn how to conjure the devil! You know, like it's just not... There's no good thing happening there. So I think it's a very good sign that my witchcraft has changed dramatically. And my witchcraft has changed in the last year, the last two years. It's constantly evolving. One of the things that I'm known for is having written a book. I wrote Southern Cunning, Folklore of Witchcraft in the American South. And even since writing that book, from the time that I started writing it in 2015 to the time it got published in 2018, I barely recognized my own practice. When it was published in 2018, going back, it took me a while to finally be able to reread my own book. I've talked about this before on other podcasts about postpartum and imposter syndrome and how deeply that affected me. When I finally went back and read it, and I've talked to other authors about this, it's like someone else, it's like a completely different person. I hardly recognize that person. Now, some of the practices are the same, right? Like the spirits, yes, I recognize the Man in Black, that he's the same, you know, and the conjuration for the crossroads, that's one that I still use. Now, mind you, like any good witch, I always change things just a little bit because I don't need everyone who's ever read my book to know my practice on the inside and out. So nothing is ever the same. There are certain prayers that are never revealed, and you should build your own practice and not just expect one book to be able to fill everything up. So, but I mean I still use the crossroads ritual the same way that I wrote it there. But every time a new spirit enters into my practice it's a new initiation. Their story is a new mystery to build upon. So it's impossible for me to ever stay static, to ever stay the same. I'll probably be talking about the importance of stories for years and then, you know, if I look back on this interview in five years, I'll be like, damn, I can't believe I never talked about the importance of, I don't know, ditch water. You know, like, there will be something in five years and I'm like, oh my god, I didn't talk about that. Why didn't... you know, there's always a new key element evolving. There's always something changing.
Kim: It should. The world changes.
Aaron: And you have to grow and your practice should grow. I don't think there's ever going to be a moment where I stop growing. I do see there are certain key elements, right? Like I don't see myself ever losing the Bible as a part of my practice. I don't see myself ever losing the spirits who are so key that I have them tattooed on my body. You know, those spirits are always going to be there. The importance of story, the importance of image, the importance of art, the ability to use art to tell stories that I can't tell verbally because of certain pacts. You know, there's just certain things that will always exist within my practice. That being said, things will always change. Whether through spirits or just being with other practitioners. A lot of my growth has come from being able to work with other practitioners and seeing their way of doing things and being like, you know, I've always discounted planetary magic, maybe I should give that a try, you know? So those are, there's so many benefits to being able to facilitate community and challenge your own practice and keep moving forward.
Kim: Well, speaking of other, working with other witches, what does that look like for you?
Aaron: So I have a very tight circle. 98% of the work that I do is by myself. And for the majority of my practice has been by myself. There have been stints where I've taught people things, mostly in college, where, again, people were coming and they had no resources, and I was one of the few people that did have resources. So I would share, I joined a coven for a little while that was... a learning experience but find out...
Kim: That is not for me.
Aaron: Huh?
Kim: That is not for me.
Aaron: No. I have experimented for years. I'm not giving up on covens but the way that it currently exists is inherently flawed and opens itself up for a lot of issues that I think can be overcome, but I think takes a lot of trial and error, and so I have attempted to do that. But what it looks like currently is just having practitioners that I trust. And there's few things in this world harder to come by than trust, especially in magic, which you could almost argue the currency of magic is secrets. The trading of secrets is where a lot of our power comes from. So, having practitioners who maybe we have oathsed to one another, that we are in fact going to maintain each other's secrets even if we get pissy with each other. You know, it's... a magical prenup, to me, is a very important part of building a practice with others. And I would almost describe the way that I work with others as parallel magical practice. You know, it's like when kids aren't ready to really play with other kids yet, so they parallel play, where I'm here and I'm playing, and you're there and you're playing, and I'm not mad that we're next to each other. Magically, that's pretty close to how I am, unless we're engaging in storytelling. And that is collaborative magic, because we are trading the space back and forth, and we are shaping things through narrative charm, we're shaping things through creation, through ecstatic improv, through spontaneous creation. And I have done that with a couple people to very good effect. And my parallel practice to others is that they're doing their thing and there's just a synergy. It's not so much that we are both doing, you know, okay we're all gonna make this sigil. And I've done this before, but it's just not common. We're all going to make the sigil, and we're going to light this candle, and we're all going to do this work. Sometimes some underground currents of that do come up when certain political action needs to be taken, but by and large, in my day-to-day practice, it is finding those people that I trust, who I can confer with, that I can... Witchcraft is something that strains mental stability, and I think that's important to note. Magic can strain your mental stability, right? We believe that we can reshape the world around us. We believe we are talking to dead people. We believe that we are conjuring spirits and demons and angels. So we need reality checks. We need people that are going to say, like, Hey, you're going to... I see the lead, bud, come on back. You know, we need those people who can do that for us. And we also need those people that are like, hey, I have this really cool resource that I think will be effective for you, or let's work on this thing together, let's grow our skills together, let's increase our depth of divination, or find a way to send messages to one another and really and practice our skills. And if we fail at it, we fail at it. But we're practicing or growing together. Does that answer your question or did I just go in a huge circle?
Kim: I don't know. (Aaron laughs) I'm just listening, and I process it afterward.
Aaron: I feel that.
Kim: But... Okay. For me, my imposter syndrom sometimes comes in as, am I crazy? Am I full of shit? How does it affect you? What do you do?
Aaron: Impostor syndrome is is something that is constantly, and this is why I limit my time on social media, I say as I'm sure I've gone over my daily limit of social media time. Imposter syndrome hits me really hard when I know something big is about to come out. I have people who are very, very kind to me, and who have expressed respect for my work, and for what I do when it comes to my land-based practices, and the dissemination Southern folk magic and things like that. And even with that there's this part of me that is like, oh you're not good enough for this, what are you talking about? Why did they come to you? Why would you, you don't know what you're talking about. That's always, there is that voice. And that voice is normally based in some form of trauma, right? I can't go ten minutes without talking about therapy. It's really important, guys. So important. You're all fucked up. We're all fucked up together, you know, and let's go get unfucked together. And there are affordable healthcare options out there, so reach out to your local community. But imposter syndrome normally takes the shape of me backing away from community, and that's the worst thing that you can possibly do. When my book came out, I had what I've talked to other authors since and described as like a postpartum, almost, where you have just, they call it a labor of love for a reason, right? You are putting this thing out into the world and now everyone gets to look at it. And it's not even necessarily the negative comments because honestly the negative comments were like whatever. I got death threats, I got called a race traitor, I got called the F slur a lot. Oh yeah because I wrote a book about the South, and I said very explicitly that the South is not a white monolith, and that if you're here looking for some kind of Confederate sorcery to go fuck yourself and I don't want your money. I say that within like the first two pages.
Kim: People are so weird.
Aaron: Oh yeah, no I got lots of death threats and all kinds of stuff. Amazon didn't take them down immediately either, which was great.
Kim: It was on Amazon?!
Aaron: Oh yeah, no, I got death threats on Amazon.
Kim: The hell?? Jesus, okay.
Aaron: Yeah, no that's what they said too. Hell, to Jesus. Yeah, no that's what they were saying. Yeah, it was a lot. It was being in the public eye that was the most for me. And being able to be... not just criticized, but criticized critically? Like broken down. Like bullet points of things, like even if it was positive.
Kim: Here's how you're wrong, 9,000 ways.
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Aaron Oberon, Part 2. Author, DungeonMaster, and Southern Witch
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CLEVER KIM
SEASON: 3
EPISODE: 35
Description
Transcript
Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories, and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Clever Kim's Curios. In this episode, I'm still talking to Aaron Oberon, in part 2 of our conversation. This time, Aaron tells us about why your practice should change, how to defeat imposter syndrome, and that yes, Florida actually *is* part of The South. Now let's get to the stories!
Aaron: (fades in) Memories are real, we're living in a simulation, Rapunzel is a hair monster that one, that has no life and will only consume you, much like a sun dew. How's your day going?
Kim: Wow. (laughs) Okay but what's the biggest motivator in your practice?
Aaron: (bursts into laughter) No, I love it. Yes, please. Yes, let's continue.
Kim: It's not often that somebody's more tangential than me, I'll tell you. (laughing)
Aaron: Oh, no, I knew. You said you were tangential and I laughed. I laughed because I was like...
Kim: Okay this is exciting.
Aaron: I don't know that I have like a single motivation in my practice other than to keep moving forward, right? And to continue to make a better life for myself and those around me. (sighs) I've been talking about story a lot and it isn't just because I love D&D, but it is because that the basis of my practice, my tradition, for me, myself, and I, is the keeping of story. And knowing when stories need to be told. So I operate often using trance states and in conjuration. So those are the two modes of communication I use for reaching spirits. Either I'm going to go to you, or you're going to come to me. But in either of those transactions, it is to swap stories. We often have this concept that names are power, and they are. They absolutely are, right? If we have a grimoiric practice, then there is this intense need and purpose behind the names of God. Elohim, El, Adonai, knowing these names so that you may call upon a spirit whose name you know. You are able to call the spirit because you know the name of the spirit. The way that the spirit works is, or the way that the spirit looks is only tangential. If you read the grimoires, they will appear to you in the form of X, Y, and Z, right? A child riding upon a lion, breathing sunflowers, whatever. Those descriptions, it's very clear that this is just a facade that they're putting in front of you, because you can change them. You can command them to take a new form that is pleasing to you, that doesn't scare you, or scare these pussies out in the fucking Victorian ages who were scared of a little lion-headed bat, oooo. Their forms are malleable. Their names and their experiences and their stories are not. These are the things that are fixed because we are nothing if not our names. And what is a name but a signifier of a much deeper story? There's something else there. If you know a name, you know how to call someone. If you know their story, you know how to connect to someone. If we want to take it in a much more malicious route, these conjuration practices often have us threatening spirits. And we're able to threaten them by the names of higher-ranking spirits, or God, Elohim, El, Adonai, all those things. If you know their name, you can call them out. If you know their story, you can blackmail them. So there's always this, again, it's witchcraft, there's always this double-sided edge to it. But my practice is not about blackmailing spirits. (both laugh) My practice is about the exchange of story, and the knowledge of one another and the sharing of self. The offering I make to spirits to create these bonds often comes in the form of creating art for them that gives them honor in a way that they might not always have. One of the things that I... It should go... It's kind of like a hidden secret, an open secret, is that I work with King Oberyn. My last name is Oberon, so there's a thing there. And one of the big things for me was, I don't know how familiar you are with Shakespeare, Elizabethan conjuration magic, but the depictions of Oberyn are, they're bad. It's not good art, it's objectively bad art. I know a lot of kids, like my niece and nephew could make way more like... this is a king of fairies, like y'all are out here really doing my boy dirty. So oftentimes my, the spirits that are more partial to conjuration than to me meeting them on their side of the fence, I will make these talismanic sigils, depictions. Things that are I think doing them more justice and I'm not just saying that because I'm pretty good at art, but because it is just something that I think has a little bit more care. Again I encourage everyone to go look up the original manuscripts of the Book of Oberyn. They did my boy dirty. Like it's bad. And he's hot, make him hot! Like come on guys. So the biggest motivator in my practice to actually tie it back and to actually have some sense of cohesion and purpose to this is to continue to listen. As ironic as it is that I am completely dominating this entire thing and talking incessantly, my practice is one of listening. It is one of recording, and holding story, and finding the deeper thing there. What goes beyond your name? What are you? What is your experience? What have you been through?
Kim: Has it changed from when you first started out?
Aaron: Massively. I started practicing witchcraft at 13 years old. I was bad at witchcraft. (laughs) I was, listen, I was watching Charmed. That was where I was getting the majority of my like magical information was watching fucking Charmed. Because I also was Baptist, and you couldn't get books about witchcraft. You couldn't gain access to these things. So there are some things that really honestly have stayed the core of who I am. Like a lot of my first spells were done with the Psalms. And somewhere in a box, somewhere in this home, I have my baptismal Psalm. So it's a little book, it's a little orange book, the same kind that you would get passed out to you at some kind of like revival. And in glitter gel, like silver glittery gel pen, I have my name and my baptismal date. And that was my first spell book. And to this day, the Psalms are where I turn to get a lot of incantations. If I'm not using the Psalms, I'm using the Carmina Gadelica, which I referenced earlier, by Alexander Carmichael, which is a collection of yada yada yada. So in that aspect, things have stayed the same, right? I didn't have access to spell books, so I used the Bible. Which, I mean, that in and of itself, that is the basis of folk magic across so many colonized lands. And beyond that, I was 13 years old. I wanted to be like Phoebe Halliwell. Okay? You did too, people. Don't lie to yourself.
Kim: I actually didn't watch Charmed until... what's the big thing that happened in 2020?!
Aaron: Oh, the pandemic? Just a little, you know, just a world-changing-
Kim: (laughs) I couldn't remember the word! But that's when I first watched Charmed.
Aaron: ...the panorama, the pizzeria, everyone calls it something different. I watched it as a kid and that was my, like, I remember, like, in the, I think it's the pilot episode where it's the only time they ever say Wiccan or something like that. I don't know. I was obsessed with it. That and the very first time I'd ever heard the word Wiccan was in Scooby-Doo and Zombie Island. Yes. No, no, no, no, not Scooby-Doo and Zo- Scooby Doo and the Witch's Ghost. Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost was the very first time I...
Kim: Scooby Doo?
Aaron: Mhmmm. In Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost, there is a girl group called the Hex Girls, which, first of all, great name. And the lead singer of the Hex Girls is half Wiccan on her mother's side, which I just adore. What a stupid thing.
Kim: Stahp! (laughs)
Aaron: And it's just giving me joy. But yeah, they talk about Wicca a lot. They talk about the... It's so wrong, but I love it. They talk about how this pilgrim woman was a Wiccan, which is a healer, not a witch, not an evil witch. She's a healer. She used herbs, and that's her book of shadows. Great stuff.
Kim: ... aright.
Aaron: Yeah, I know. It's no it's bad. It's bad. It's great. I love it.
Kim: And it's funny to me that Wicca is what they're using as like the scary thing.
Aaron: Well, no Wicca was the was the not witchcraft was the scary thing. You were either a witch or a Wiccan, there were two different things.
Kim: Well, I mean you've said that you, maybe I misunderstood earlier.
Aaron: Oh, yeah in my Baptist Church Wicca was evil.
Kim: Yeah.
Aaron: Yes.
Kim: That's wild.
Aaron: No, I know. The thing that all of us in the occult spaces are like, yeah, Wicca is like the gentlest like variation of what occultists are out here be doing. And then to the rest of the world, they're like, that's evil. Not to say that Wicca doesn't have its thorns too, of course it does. But the forward facing of it is very much that of the healing side of things. But my practice has changed dramatically outside of that aspect of using psalms and pop culture. Pop culture still very much influences me. I'm actually doing good witchcraft now. (laughs) It's not me taking an amethyst and like, I want to, when I touch this stone I will feel others feelings, like, because I wanted to fucking have superpowers like Phoebe Halliwell. My magic and my practice is very much oriented on spirits. I think it's impossible, I think it's a bad sign if your witchcraft from the time you were a teenager looks the same as it does now. If you started later in life and you started in a more secure place, you're practice is looking the same, not too worried about... If you were like me and you... I can't imagine any responsible 12-year-old who is like, I'm going to learn how to conjure the devil! You know, like it's just not... There's no good thing happening there. So I think it's a very good sign that my witchcraft has changed dramatically. And my witchcraft has changed in the last year, the last two years. It's constantly evolving. One of the things that I'm known for is having written a book. I wrote Southern Cunning, Folklore of Witchcraft in the American South. And even since writing that book, from the time that I started writing it in 2015 to the time it got published in 2018, I barely recognized my own practice. When it was published in 2018, going back, it took me a while to finally be able to reread my own book. I've talked about this before on other podcasts about postpartum and imposter syndrome and how deeply that affected me. When I finally went back and read it, and I've talked to other authors about this, it's like someone else, it's like a completely different person. I hardly recognize that person. Now, some of the practices are the same, right? Like the spirits, yes, I recognize the Man in Black, that he's the same, you know, and the conjuration for the crossroads, that's one that I still use. Now, mind you, like any good witch, I always change things just a little bit because I don't need everyone who's ever read my book to know my practice on the inside and out. So nothing is ever the same. There are certain prayers that are never revealed, and you should build your own practice and not just expect one book to be able to fill everything up. So, but I mean I still use the crossroads ritual the same way that I wrote it there. But every time a new spirit enters into my practice it's a new initiation. Their story is a new mystery to build upon. So it's impossible for me to ever stay static, to ever stay the same. I'll probably be talking about the importance of stories for years and then, you know, if I look back on this interview in five years, I'll be like, damn, I can't believe I never talked about the importance of, I don't know, ditch water. You know, like, there will be something in five years and I'm like, oh my god, I didn't talk about that. Why didn't... you know, there's always a new key element evolving. There's always something changing.
Kim: It should. The world changes.
Aaron: And you have to grow and your practice should grow. I don't think there's ever going to be a moment where I stop growing. I do see there are certain key elements, right? Like I don't see myself ever losing the Bible as a part of my practice. I don't see myself ever losing the spirits who are so key that I have them tattooed on my body. You know, those spirits are always going to be there. The importance of story, the importance of image, the importance of art, the ability to use art to tell stories that I can't tell verbally because of certain pacts. You know, there's just certain things that will always exist within my practice. That being said, things will always change. Whether through spirits or just being with other practitioners. A lot of my growth has come from being able to work with other practitioners and seeing their way of doing things and being like, you know, I've always discounted planetary magic, maybe I should give that a try, you know? So those are, there's so many benefits to being able to facilitate community and challenge your own practice and keep moving forward.
Kim: Well, speaking of other, working with other witches, what does that look like for you?
Aaron: So I have a very tight circle. 98% of the work that I do is by myself. And for the majority of my practice has been by myself. There have been stints where I've taught people things, mostly in college, where, again, people were coming and they had no resources, and I was one of the few people that did have resources. So I would share, I joined a coven for a little while that was... a learning experience but find out...
Kim: That is not for me.
Aaron: Huh?
Kim: That is not for me.
Aaron: No. I have experimented for years. I'm not giving up on covens but the way that it currently exists is inherently flawed and opens itself up for a lot of issues that I think can be overcome, but I think takes a lot of trial and error, and so I have attempted to do that. But what it looks like currently is just having practitioners that I trust. And there's few things in this world harder to come by than trust, especially in magic, which you could almost argue the currency of magic is secrets. The trading of secrets is where a lot of our power comes from. So, having practitioners who maybe we have oathsed to one another, that we are in fact going to maintain each other's secrets even if we get pissy with each other. You know, it's... a magical prenup, to me, is a very important part of building a practice with others. And I would almost describe the way that I work with others as parallel magical practice. You know, it's like when kids aren't ready to really play with other kids yet, so they parallel play, where I'm here and I'm playing, and you're there and you're playing, and I'm not mad that we're next to each other. Magically, that's pretty close to how I am, unless we're engaging in storytelling. And that is collaborative magic, because we are trading the space back and forth, and we are shaping things through narrative charm, we're shaping things through creation, through ecstatic improv, through spontaneous creation. And I have done that with a couple people to very good effect. And my parallel practice to others is that they're doing their thing and there's just a synergy. It's not so much that we are both doing, you know, okay we're all gonna make this sigil. And I've done this before, but it's just not common. We're all going to make the sigil, and we're going to light this candle, and we're all going to do this work. Sometimes some underground currents of that do come up when certain political action needs to be taken, but by and large, in my day-to-day practice, it is finding those people that I trust, who I can confer with, that I can... Witchcraft is something that strains mental stability, and I think that's important to note. Magic can strain your mental stability, right? We believe that we can reshape the world around us. We believe we are talking to dead people. We believe that we are conjuring spirits and demons and angels. So we need reality checks. We need people that are going to say, like, Hey, you're going to... I see the lead, bud, come on back. You know, we need those people who can do that for us. And we also need those people that are like, hey, I have this really cool resource that I think will be effective for you, or let's work on this thing together, let's grow our skills together, let's increase our depth of divination, or find a way to send messages to one another and really and practice our skills. And if we fail at it, we fail at it. But we're practicing or growing together. Does that answer your question or did I just go in a huge circle?
Kim: I don't know. (Aaron laughs) I'm just listening, and I process it afterward.
Aaron: I feel that.
Kim: But... Okay. For me, my imposter syndrom sometimes comes in as, am I crazy? Am I full of shit? How does it affect you? What do you do?
Aaron: Impostor syndrome is is something that is constantly, and this is why I limit my time on social media, I say as I'm sure I've gone over my daily limit of social media time. Imposter syndrome hits me really hard when I know something big is about to come out. I have people who are very, very kind to me, and who have expressed respect for my work, and for what I do when it comes to my land-based practices, and the dissemination Southern folk magic and things like that. And even with that there's this part of me that is like, oh you're not good enough for this, what are you talking about? Why did they come to you? Why would you, you don't know what you're talking about. That's always, there is that voice. And that voice is normally based in some form of trauma, right? I can't go ten minutes without talking about therapy. It's really important, guys. So important. You're all fucked up. We're all fucked up together, you know, and let's go get unfucked together. And there are affordable healthcare options out there, so reach out to your local community. But imposter syndrome normally takes the shape of me backing away from community, and that's the worst thing that you can possibly do. When my book came out, I had what I've talked to other authors since and described as like a postpartum, almost, where you have just, they call it a labor of love for a reason, right? You are putting this thing out into the world and now everyone gets to look at it. And it's not even necessarily the negative comments because honestly the negative comments were like whatever. I got death threats, I got called a race traitor, I got called the F slur a lot. Oh yeah because I wrote a book about the South, and I said very explicitly that the South is not a white monolith, and that if you're here looking for some kind of Confederate sorcery to go fuck yourself and I don't want your money. I say that within like the first two pages.
Kim: People are so weird.
Aaron: Oh yeah, no I got lots of death threats and all kinds of stuff. Amazon didn't take them down immediately either, which was great.
Kim: It was on Amazon?!
Aaron: Oh yeah, no, I got death threats on Amazon.
Kim: The hell?? Jesus, okay.
Aaron: Yeah, no that's what they said too. Hell, to Jesus. Yeah, no that's what they were saying. Yeah, it was a lot. It was being in the public eye that was the most for me. And being able to be... not just criticized, but criticized critically? Like broken down. Like bullet points of things, like even if it was positive.
Kim: Here's how you're wrong, 9,000 ways.
Aaron: Yeah, that or even just like, oh, god, wow, you guys really know what I be doing out here. I'm like, I don't like that. Like, it's, it's a rawness. And then the other side of that is something that I've struggled with, even in my own family, which is writing a book about the South and having people say, you're not from the South. And the weirdness that comes with that, because even in my own family, who all consider themselves Southerners, mind you, we're from central Florida and everyone thinks Florida is just Miami or Orlando and there is nothing in between. They have no idea about the immense cultural meshing that takes place in this insane state. They want to make fun of us but they know shit about us. They went to Miami once on spring break and think they know everything about us. So my family is deeply Southern. I was primarily raised in Maryland for my first seven years. There was a divorce, I lived in a couple different places, and then by the time I was 13, was firmly in Florida. We've been going to Florida my whole life. While I might have been raised in Maryland, my dad was raised in North Carolina by a 7th-Day Adventist preacher (laughs), and my mom was raised by her two parents, who were from the Ozarks and were truckers. So these were the values and the culture that I was raised with. Not to mention also being raised in Central Florida, which is southern. And if you don't think that, come down. Come to Polk County, go tell some bitches up in Polk County that they ain't southern. Go to Arcadia and tell people they're not Southern. I'd love to see you do it. I'd love to see you get your ass beat. Listen, I might, I might have, you could take me out of Polk County but the Polk County gonna stay inside. We are garbage people. We're absolute, we, we're garbage people. There's nothing about it. So having the book come out and people being like, you're from Florida, why are you talking about the South? And other Southerners occasionally even, like immediately reading that I lived in Florida and were like, you're not a Southerner. Not reading the rest of the book and making huge judgments about me. Like, even as a grown person, that kind of stuff, it hits at that inner child, right? It hits at that core insecurity that at some point in your life, you were told you were less than, you weren't what you saw yourself as. So that is, to me, that is imposter syndrome. It is less about what is currently happening and more about what is that triggering in the past where you were made to feel less than. And that is-
Kim: I hate that! (Aaron bursts into laughter) I hate it! I don't like this conversation!
Aaron: I know! You're the one that asked me about impostor syndrome!
Kim: It was a mistake! (laughing)
Aaron: Well, not only, like, my background is in mental health and then also I came, I just came from therapy, so like, you're getting double-dosed.
Kim: (laughing) Lord.
Aaron: Yeah. So, yeah, imposter syndrome is a bitch, but you have to remember that imposter syndrome is an imposter. Anxiety is a liar. It's not the truth. It is an illusion that your brain is creating for a child who has grown up. And those situations aren't there anymore. You good?
Kim: No! (laughs)
Aaron: That was supposed to be nice!
Kim: It's stressing me out!
Aaron: (laughing) Oh my god.
Kim: (growls) Don't worry about me, I'm fine! (laughing)
Aaron: I'm crying. Um, it is, it is something, you defeat imposter syndrome by accepting it for what it is, by accepting that it is the illusion that is catering to a child who has grown up, and by knowing that your work, one, it doesn't define you, and it's also probably a lot better than you realize. And what you do does not have to match what other people do. I think that's probably the one that most people will relate to the most, right? Social media is very, very bad for comparing yourself to others. And there are some people who are both amazing practitioners, and have this insane ability to capture a part of their practice through photography that is just mind-blowing. And there's also a lot of people who are just really good at photography and don't have any practice at all, and I think everyone should know that. But there, I have some friends who are very, very good at capturing their practice, and I know because I've seen their practice and been privy to some of the the insider stuff like, oh no, you are doing the work. Like, you're doing some real shit, and there is that kind of like, man, why can't I do that? Why can't I put my stuff up there? And I've had people talk to me and say like, oh man, your art, I could never do that. I'm like, girl, I just learned how to do this. You can! Yes, you can do this! Are you kidding me? I think that's a huge thing too. Everyone who is out here doing this shit, we just taught ourselves.
Kim: Mhmmm.
Aaron: None of us went to school for this. These are things that we came up on. I did not go to school for art. At all. My family would have killed me. I wanted to go to school for art. It would have just been like, nope, no support whatsoever. So I did not have the opportunity. The fact that I went to school for psychology was already they were like, well, that's not a real job. You know, I barely made it there. I know. Listen. I come from... I'm from the South! What do you want from me? Um... So... I just... I feel so bad for everyone who's listening to this with headphones, because I forgot how loud I am and how much I yell. I'm queer. We yell. It's a thing. Um... Okay... I lost it. It's gone. She's gone. But yeah. Imposter Syndrome. Don't compare yourself to others. Those are just people who taught themselves how to do something. You can learn it too if you feel like you need to, if you need to. But also, you probably have something that other people think is amazing, and is a skill that's needed. And even if you don't, it doesn't mean that you're less than.
What is something that you wish was discussed more in the witch community?
Aaron: Whew! (sighs deeply) Probably wealth disparity. I was, you know, my go-to used to be cultural appropriation, but I do, and I do think that's a conversation that needs to be maintained and continued, but I think that's actually a conversation that's in place. I don't think the conversation about wealth disparity in witchcraft is in place.
Kim: Yeah, nobody's said that before, so yay!
Aaron: Yeah, it is something that's very, very, and especially because... Witches like stuff. We really enjoy stuff and things. That is, to me, the best way to put it.
Kim: Lord. (laughs)
Aaron: We are little goblins, we are collecting trinkets, we are... Do you know, I have so many jars of fucking dirt. Like I make that joke that I'm a little mud goblin, but I literally have jars of dirt. I'm fucking Jack Sparrow up in this bitch. Everywhere! We love little trinkets and little things.
Kim: Little things inside other little things.
Aaron: Oh my god. Are you kidding me? I love a miniature.
Kim: That's what made me get into jewelry making because I love little tiny shit in other little shit.
Aaron: You need little little stones and little piece of metal that you put in a little box. We love a box.
Kim: With a glass door so I can see it.
Aaron: Yes. Witches love containers. We love containers for creatures that do not like to be contained, for creatures that are explosive magical monsters of destructive reality. We sure do love something that constrains and constricts. We love a box, a vase, a vessel. But, and especially in a maker space, because the majority of the people around me are also, like, I'm an artist, so I'm creating things, and some of my art is more affordable than others. And it, we are in a space where we're all wanting to support each other, but many of us really don't have the financial situation. And I say this as someone who lives very comfortably, but who comes from a background where I did not live very comfortably. That poverty trauma stays with you no matter where you are. Again, all forms of trauma need to be worked through and addressed. It doesn't just magically go away because you got money all of a sudden. But the people who are practicing and seeing beautiful, bespoke drums, daggers, art, chests for shrines, these huge elaborate shrines. I mean, I am one of these people who my spirits do demand certain things of me... If your spirits demand something of you, work with them and figure out something that is reasonable. And your spirits will know what is reasonable, right? If you don't have the physical space to dedicate a shrine and your spirits are asking for a shrine, tell them that, and they'll be like, oh cool, get a picture and put it in a tin, and feed it small offerings. Pressed flowers, whatever. There are ways to work with the spirits and to put into concept what your situation is. If they-
Kim: Like a spirit home?
Aaron: Like a spirit home, a shrine, anything. Like there's so many different ways to do it that are affordable and effective. If your spirits put demands on you, find a way to make it work. If you are looking at someone else's practice and you're saying, oh, I need that, that's where you need to stop yourself. Because there is one side of self-imposed, when I talk about the wealth disparity, and I don't want it to be victim-blaming, I don't want it to seem like I'm saying, oh, it's only on that one person. We should all be talking about how the fact that these materials are things that we have gotten to because our spirits have demanded it to us and we have told our spirits, okay, get me to a place where I can afford that then. Make a deal!
Kim: We've done that.
Aaron: Yeah, do you think this cabinet back here, I'm pointing to something even you can't see. (laughs) I have a cabinet back here, I didn't just get that. She had to work for it. And I had to work for it. (laughs) And I got to a space, okay, cool, you came through. There are certain, and it's not just monetary, but also the amount of work put into it. I've mentioned before that I'm a bookbinder, and there are certain things that have been asked by, I'm not just a bookbinder by, you know, oh, I'm picking up a hobby. No, my spirits demanded that I learn how to bind books for very specific reasons. Many, many of the hobbies that I have picked up are because my spirits have told me, hey, I need this. And as the memes will tell you, queer audacity means that I will just look at something and say, I can do that. And oftentimes I'm pretty right. I can in fact do that. But even, even though I'm hand making a book that is very particular and very difficult to make because there's no, there's no instructable or YouTube tutorial that's going to teach me how to make a deconstructible triangular conjuration book.
Kim: Holy shit! (laughs)
Aaron: Yeah, that's the shit I'm on right now.
Kim: Oh my god.
Aaron: Yeah, it has to be able to be taken apart, it has to be a very specific geometrical shape, it has to be durable and withstand wear and tear, because, you know, there's the practical side of things. Anyway, but to be able to do that, that means I need to afford the leather that they want me to bind it in, the high quality wood because it had to be wood instead of the traditional or normal chipboard, the papers that I use, the ink, the carving, the linoleum that I need to carve to make the images of the spirits that wanted this book to be crafted. There's a lot of money that goes into that. So, okay, y'all want this to happen, make it happen. But within that also understanding that when you're offering, when we talk about wealth disparity, I've talked a lot about the material aspect of it, but wealth disparity goes much farther than just like the stuff. And I do think that there is a conversation around how you can make the stuff with things that you have in your natural environment and there's been whole classes on it, and things that have been taught. But when we get to that part, the classes, the information, the books. What is the biggest consumed material in the witchcraft community? Books. I have not met a single person in any magical space, or even spiritual space. Whether we're talking witchcraft, ceremonial magic, grimoire traditions, reiki, angel healing, whatever, books are huge! There is an entire capitalistic industry built around books for a fucking reason: it sells. Books are good and important. They are also expensive and take up space. Kindle helps with that a little bit, but then also things update and you lose over time. Digital is one of the least reliable storage systems on the face of the planet. Being married to someone who works in archives really makes you realize that. Paper lasts a lot longer than you think. Digital does not. But these materials, or workshops, these classes where you can get high quality information. They're expensive. So what can we do as a community to combat that? Because I think ultimately the majority, and maybe I'm in a bubble, but I think the majority of the community wants witchcraft. True, good, quality information, not a fucking TikTok, real good information, to be made available equally to all people. One of the ways that I tried to work towards that was to make sure that when I signed my book deal, that the book was going to be affordable. And it is, it's like 10 bucks. It might be like 12 with shipping. But it is a relatively affordable piece of information. And I'm not saying that anyone should undercut their book. That was what I wanted my book to be at very specifically, was something affordable. And not every author can control that. And I'm shocked that even we were able to do that with my book because I was with a traditional publisher. But, you know, they heard my message. And it's not a very long book. So one of the other ways that I work on accessibility is the way that I write. I try to write the way that I talk, which is pretty plainly. Sometimes I have some academic stuff thrown in there, but by and large I try to speak relatively plainly, because I joked earlier about pyrography, but I really don't want to use overcomplicated terms when I could just get to the fucking point. Which I know is incredibly ironic for how much I tangent. So making sure that our price points, those of us who are in a position where we are disseminating information, right, things that we can do is make sure that our price points are something that are respectable to us. Because as an artist, I'm not going to make all of my pieces $5. That's just not gonna happen, because I do have a respect for myself as an artist and as a person who has their own monetary needs. If I'm selling my art, it's because I need to sell it. You know what I mean? There is a balance that exists within that. And that's why I say within the material, there's other options. And we need to make sure that the information about those other options is disseminated. And that information and that control of information is where the wealth disparity can also come in. Because most of us have the knowledge we have because we've been able to access academic sources. And we're talking incredibly expensive academic sources. Some of the things that are known to be expensive, like Emma Wilby's Cunning Folk and Familiar Spirits, or Emma Wilby's Visions of Isabel Gowdy, these are academic texts that are very expensive. That doesn't even hold a candle to some of the things that I've been trying to get my hands on. A single 10-page article that's $70 because it's a part of an academic journal. The paywall to this information. So then when we access this information as people who are creators and disseminators of information ourselves, we're like, well shit, I need to make something back on that. So I don't know what the answer is, but I do think that there is a way to find that balance between respecting the work and money that we have put into this, and also creating space for people that don't have access to this. Some of my friends who do frequent workshops are really good at this, they do scholarships. And normally it's donation based, so someone who knows that they have the money will donate basically tickets to the workshop and say like, I will pay for five tickets, and people can message you and you can create a system where either if there's too many people, lottery, you know, whatever it is, but that people who are genuinely in need but who want this information... the creator gets to pay their bills, because they still sold the tickets, but now people who would otherwise not have access to that information are able to make their way in. Because one of because someone who does have that position, who has the money to do that, has given. And there is something in giving that always comes back. I mean, that's a little, maybe that's the Southern Baptist in me coming out there, but I do truly believe that I think there is a way to To give back and and receive from the community. I would love it if we were all just altruistic, but let's be real.
Kim: Who or what are the three biggest influences in your practice?
Aaron: I'm glad you have the who or what. What, the land. The majority of the things that I use in my practice come to me from the land. Gators, Cypress, Palmetto. The Whos... Corey Hutchison. I, even now that we're like, it's so weird to say colleagues, but like we've met and talked in real life and like talked outside of just like businessy things, like just had casual conversations. I'm still like totally a geek, like, oh my god, I'm talking to Cory, like, ah! Like I'm still a fan, such a fangirl of theirs. Laine, also from New World Witchery, who's just one of the kindest human beings I've ever met. My dear friends Austin at BaneXBramble and Madi Diana of Hallowed Bones, they are both such profound practitioners. And the dedication to spirit that Austin has, and the follow through to create, and like not just as a witch but also as a maker. The things that Austin can create is impeccable. I mean I literally have, this is the Sebelia perfume that I keep in my workspace at all times because we both love Sebellia.
Kim: (gasps) I have envy. Oh, I have smell envy!
Aaron: Oh, not to mention the entire Planetary perfume set, the rose set over there.
Kim: My feelings!
Aaron: Austin is my husband's favorite perfumer. We exclusively get from Austin now. Like their work is, and every time they do a drop it's just so like, so inspiring for me to continue making as well. And Madi's knowledge and the depth of knowledge that they express concerning matters of necromancy, of animal magic, of working with the dead, of understanding the dead, the processing of grief and death and decay is profound and powerful. And their understanding and appreciation for life is something that pushes me forward in union with my spirits. Sharon Arnold is, I mean every single sentence out of their mouth is something that just makes me question everything in the best way possible. I mean, I can't keep it to just, I know you said three, but I can't keep it to three because there are just so many people who have influenced me. I would not be the practitioner I am today without these people in my life challenging me, pushing me forward, making me not just a better witch, but better in other areas of my life, being able to bounce ideas off of, being able to check me when I'm wrong. Shout out to Sharon, you know what it was. Those are the kind of people that you need in your life. And my husband, for being one of the most, not a practitioner, but one of the most knowledgeable people about our local flora, fauna, and history. The things that I have learned from them, because I'm from Central Florida and they're from southwest Florida and it is completely different. We don't have, we have freshwater where I'm from. We don't have saltwater. So my entire practice is built up around gators, lakes, and swamps. And now I'm down here on the beach. Uh, still got gators and swamps, but you know, I learned a lot from them. So, I mean, so many people, people are important.
Kim: Who do you think I should have on the show next?
Aaron: Oh my god. Sharon Arnold. Madi Diana. Austin. If you don't already have Austin, Austin. Marshall, Witch of Southern Light. Oh my god, so many people. How much time do you have? (laughs) I think one of the most profound people who occupies a space between the world of art and the world of magic is Sharon Arnold and I just can't, they are so phenomenal. And then gain, I know I've been like waxing poetic for the last like five minutes about these same exact people. (both laugh) But those if I had to keep it down to earth, very, very good practitioners and cool people.
Kim: Is there anything else that I didn't ask you that you wanted to talk about?
Aaron: Hmmm. How's your day going?
Kim: Uh... a shitshow.
Aaron: Wait, no, I know how your day is going. I was trying to be nice and then I remembered that it was not a great day. I was trying to be like, you know what? Let's ask the interviewer a question. Let's interview the interviewer. And then, no, that was also not a great... (Kim laughs) You know, I'm here to spread existential dread and remind us of things that we don't enjoy.
Kim: Success. (laughs) Not really. It's fine.
Aaron: I don't have a whole lot of a presence on social media. You can find me and my musings and my stupid jokes over on Instagram. It's just @AaronOberon. You can find my book wherever books are sold. Southern Cunning, Folklore of a Witchcraft in the American South by Aaron Oberon. You can buy my prints in my shop, which I need to update. Over at Etsy, SkullandMoonPrints, all one word. And um, oh! Not sure when this will come out, but if it's coming out before August, then be on the lookout for Malice Press and pre-orders for their first edition, because I do actually have some ecstatic prose being published in that. You can find, and if it's after August, then it's already in existence, it's out there in the world, find it before it's gone forever. No, I think they're, I think they're gonna be in print for a while. And then you can also find my articles on Florida in Llewellyn's Complete Book of North American Folk Magic and you can find my musings on drag, transformation, and spirit possession in Queer... let me get the name right because I've gotten around before, Queer Magic, Power Beyond Bboundaries. So that's that's all of my plugs for me.
Kim: Neat!
Aaron: Yeah, the only thing I can think, I kept trying to think of like is there anything that we didn't talk about? I guess the intersection of art and talismanic magic would be the only one but I think we've been going for an hour and a half and that's not counting the 18 minutes that we started with. So, yeah.
Kim: So two things at the end.
Aaron: Yes.
Kim: Number one, recommend something to the listeners. Anything at all. It doesn't have to be witch-related unless you want it to be.
Aaron: Oh, WanderHome. I recommend Wander Home. It's W-A-N-D-E-R-H-O-M-E. It is lovely. It is calming. It is peaceful.
Kim: Unless you're the DM, it sounds like.
Aaron: No no no. So, the amazing thing about Wander Home is that DMing can be shared. It's a very special system. Yeah, it is supposed to be- now, I always take on the DMing role. I like to be in control. If my entire stranglehold on this conversation is not evident enough. At least I'm self-aware, that's something. No, WanderHome is really lovely because it is about wandering, it is very pastoral, it is about meandering, it's about wandering home, finding your way somewhere that you didn't know you had. So I definitely recommend WanderHome, it's lovely and amazing. I also recommend drinking water. Drink water guys, lots of water. And therapy. (laughs) I'm trying to think of like other recommendations. Everywhere, Everything, All at Once. Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. Oh my god it's so good. And To Wong Fu, Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar. Classic. It's a feel-good queer movie. Patrick Swayze, John Leguiziamo, and Wesley Snipes as drag queens getting caught in a little dust bowl mid-american town and changing everyone's lives with the power of drag. It's the movie we need now more than ever.
Kim: The last thing is, please tell me a story that you love to tell.
Aaron: Haven't I told so many?
Kim: Just a little one, just a little one.
Aaron: Me telling a little story? Have you, there's been a theme. (Kim laughs) And short stories has not been a single one of them. Okay here's a story I love to tell. I'm out hiking in an unfamiliar forest. It's still within like my local region but it was one we had never been to before. It's me and my now husband at the time... partner. Boyfriend's weird. We're non-binary. What does it mean anyway? We say husband because it freaks people out. The gays! But so we're out hiking and at the start of every hike I always leave a little something, especially if I'm unfamiliar with the space, a little offering and I leave it at...
Kim: That's a good idea. Holy shit.
Aaron: Mhmmm. So I always leave a little something, and I have found... I try to find a landmark, too, and that is important for later. So I found two trees that grew perfectly perpendicular to one another, forming a little doorway. So I just left something right there. I said, hello, the name that I am referred to as, which, as someone who has a background in mostly working with fairies, my name is, cut that out of your vocabulary. The name by which you may call me, or refer to me as, is Aaron. I am pleased to make your acquaintance and be in this lovely space that you have deigned to share with me today. We go, we go walking, and we find a clearing that's actually a crossroads. There's three different trails and we're like, ooh, let's lay down in the summer sun. And it was a rare cloudy summer day so it wasn't 98 degrees outside. It was actually comfortable to like lay out and have a romantic summer's day... until we got up and realized that we forgot which of the three paths we had originally walked down. (Kim gasps) And when you're in, even a wood with paths, when you don't know where you have come from and where it is that you must go, is very frightening. So, we wait a second and I say, okay, we're not going to panic. And I turn away from all three paths and I face the one direction where there is no path and I very calmly say, I am referred to by the name of Aaron. I have left a single apple at two trees that formed a door. This is who I am, and I would ask that those who have journeyed with us, who have tasted of that apple, who have taken of the taldra, the life force of it, help us find our way back to the way that we must go. And then I very slowly begin to turn and down one of the paths, there's no breeze, and a single plant begins to bounce its leaves. And so I just, my husband, who is losing it, I just gently touch their shoulder and I say, we're gonna go this way. And my husband sees the plant bouncing. And we walk up to it and that plant stops bouncing. And a little bit farther down, another plant starts to bounce. So we just follow it. My husband is completely silent the entire time, which is very rare. Like me, my husband is a talker. Not as much as me. And all, and this keeps going every hundred feet or so that we move; plant bounces, plant stops. Plant bounces, plant stops. Until we finally make it back to the road, closer to our car than the path that we had originally taken. I simply turn around and I say it was a very pleasant walk back to our car. We get in the car. My husband grabs my arm and goes what the fuck was that!? And that is one of my favorite stories to tell.
Kim: I love that!! Also now I know to leave a present when I go for walks when I haven't been there. Or even if I have.
Aaron: Yes. I, yeah, we, even my husband now is like, hey, did you bring something for them? (both laugh) Just in case?
Kim: Thank you so much for being on the show.
Aaron: Thank you for having me, and indulging my incessant squabbling.
Kim: That's what I like!
Aaron: Well you got plenty with me.
Kim: Okay, then I'll see you over on Instagram, I guess. Thanks. Bye!
Aaron: Bye! (fade in) anything. There's whole scenes where she's just going around like sniffing things and when, and a number would pop up on the screen when this originally was in theaters and you would scratch it, and you would sniff it.
Kim: Oh!
Aaron: But John Waters is a fucking sociopath so he would change things. Like some of them were like fresh cut lawn, and rose, and then others would be vomit, but it wouldn't be, you wouldn't be, like there was no vomit on the floor. (fade out)
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