Today I'm talking to Irisanya Moon, author of  Honoring the Wild: Reclaiming Witchcraft & Environmental Activism. Irisanya talked about heart magic, how community teaches us, and the Reclaiming tradition.

irisanyamoon.com


Be sure to check out this week's sponsor, Prairie Fire Herbal!
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Irisanya Moon.

Author, teacher, Reclaiming witch

Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories, and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Clever Kim's Curios. Today I'm talking to Irisanya Moon, author of Honoring the Wild, Reclaiming Witchcraft and Environmental Activism. Irisanya talked about heart magic, how community teaches us, and the reclaiming tradition. Before we get to the stories, I'm going to talk to you about this week's sponsor, Prairie Fire Herbal. Penelope of Prairie Fire Herbal was a guest in season two. One of the things she talked about was her connection with the land and the plants that inhabit it with us. Her products reflect this. She takes the energy and essence of plants and turns them into candles, salves, oils, incense, and lots of other amazing witchy products. I've been lucky enough to try several of them and I love how they work and smell and make me feel. Her candles are hand-dipped beeswax and she dresses them in wonderful herbs and intention. The oils, salves, and tinctures are super magical as well. Some of my favorites are the mugwort and wormwood ointments and my new fave is her vanilla and sandalwood solid perfume. It is lovely. Prairie Fire Herbal even makes ritual kits. The most recent one is the Sun and Moon kit and it's chock full of tinctures, ointments, candles, oils, and other gorgeous products to manifest the magic of the Sun and the Moon in your own practice in one simple box. I just checked and there are a couple more left on our website, but you should grab one now if you want it. Add some handmade magic to your practice today at PrairieFireHerbal.com. Now let's get to the stories!

Kim: Hello Irisanya, welcome to the show.

Irisanya: Hello Kim, I'm glad to be here.

Kim: Yay! Would you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you?

Irisanya: Absolutely. I am Irisanya Moon, Irisanya. My pronouns are she and they. I like to tell folks that I'm on the land of the Coast Miwok, the Southern Pomo, Wapo, and Great Rancheria peoples, and that's today known as Santa Rosa, California, USA. I am a whole bunch of things, but I can narrow it down to a few things. I am an author, witch, priestess, someone who is an initiate in the reclaiming tradition of witchcraft, and I teach a lot of classes in the tradition. I teach at a lot of camps around the world. I'm an author of several books now, and I am always writing and always figuring out what my next project is. You can find out about a lot of those things when I update it on my website. It's my name on my website, irisanyamoon.com. And that's I-R-I-S-A-N-Y-A-M-O-O-N. The only other thing I would say that I think is probably relevant for me and might be interesting to know is that I'm really focused on this idea of heart magic and this idea of creating spaces of self-care, or I like to call it self-devotion, creating relationships with the divine, not necessarily a god, could be something else. And I'm also really interested in how we can connect as communities. And this is all part of my magic and my activism.

Kim: I am interested that community is coming up a lot. Like there's some interviews that I haven't, that haven't published yet, that we're all talking about community. That makes me so happy.

Irisanya: It does, right? I'm feeling that too. I think I got to say it may- I don't want to say this, but I do. It's kind of a gift of the pandemic. I think I think that that has become a louder conversation. I don't think it hasn't been there, but definitely it's a louder conversation now. It is very easy to find me because my name is unique. Thank goodness. So I am on Instagram. I'm on Facebook. I dabble with TikTok because I find that exciting right now. I do not have a Patreon yet. Someday. 

Kim: TikTok gives me anxiety. 

Irisanya: You know, there's something really fun and silly about it, and I've always been a really good lip syncer. So I, for some reason, that just that just makes me happy. But now, like right now, I post a couple of times a month for the different moons, just these interesting little like intuitive hits that I sometimes get. And so I post them. I post those pretty regularly.

Kim: Cool. 

Irisanya: Yeah. 

Kim: What does it mean when you call yourself a witch? 

Irisanya: Yeah, I love I love this question. Yes. I love that you also qualified that for me. For me, I do call myself a witch. And not just because Reclaiming has this sort of like guiding set of principles, and one of the things it says is we probably call ourselves witches. I've always called myself a witch since I knew that this is who I was. It is, for me, a claiming of a title or a label of power of someone who is often seen to be on the edges and someone who is willing to look at things that are hard to look at and to hopefully grow from them.

Kim: I have always been so interested in reclaiming and I keep going to, I don't know, there's some big website that shows up. I keep going to it and think, I want to do that. And then I get distracted.

Irisanya: Yeah, immediately. Fair.

Kim: Like I'm going to look up somebody that's on it and then I just vanish into the ether. 

Irisanya: Reclaiming is best experienced in person. It's not that we're not available and explained online, but I think there is something missing without the in-person connection.

Kim: And that's what I want. And I love that there are real life people with faces who do this.

Irisanya:  There are a lot of folks in where you're at, or at least near there. So there are some folks. There are. I mean, I don't want to say we're everywhere, but every time I sort of talk to somebody else and they say, oh, I'm from this place, like, oh, there's folks. I know folks there. So it's about, reclaiming has certainly found homes in many homes.

Kim: Do you have any family history with witchcraft or any stories from childhood where you think, oh, that they didn't say they were witches, but holy crap.

Irisanya: I, not in my family, but the story that I tell when I think about when I first realized I was on this path or near this path or being called to this path was actually through Catholicism, which I know actually don't think is a huge stretch. A lot of folks have a similar story to mine, but when I was growing up, I was very much into Mary, very into Mary, the mother of Jesus and all of that. I thought she was this amazingly powerful being, birthed, you know, someone who would do a lot of good, the way I was taught Catholicism. And that made me want to become a nun at one point. And so I always joke that I guess I kind of did that, just in a different tradition. I used to sing to her, I used to do things for an altar for her, I had one experience when I swear I could hear angels and things like that. So I feel like that's kind of where things began. I mean, I love the ritual and the incense and the candles, and love praying my rosary. And I think that's really where it began. I don't think it's a huge stretch from Catholicism to witchcraft.

Kim: Catholicism is super witchy.

Irisanya: It is! I mean look at the way priests dress. And the Just all it... 

Kim: The censures?

Irisanya:  The sacrament and you know, yeah, you know, I love that stuff. I think that's great I used to play mass with my siblings and I was I think I was the priest though because I I didn't really understand why I couldn't be. I think that that's it because it made me feel connected to something bigger than me and I really believe in that. I believe there's more, there's more and I don't care what you call it, but there is more and it is something that can provide hope.

Kim: That's so nice. That made my heart happy for a minute.

Irisanya: I just, I didn't grow up with a fire and brimstone Christianity. 

Kim: Good for you. 

Irisanya: I didn't. So I, but also my first college paper was God is a Chauvinist. So, you know, things change over time. So I can hold the complexity of that. But there was a lot in that that was really formative for me. And now moving forward in my life was actually formative for other people in my family .I have a cousin who wrote a song about how his grandmother talked to Mary. And it's gorgeous. And my dad shared it with me like a few years ago and he didn't really know about all this. And so it was one of those like lightning bolt moments of like, oh, we're all kind of tapped in. How amazing is that? 

Kim: I love it.

Irisanya:  Yeah, Mary's great. I still like Mary, love Mary Magdalene. I think it's really great. It's great myth, and I think myth is part of my magic at least. 

Kim: Mine too. That was one of my favorite parts of elementary school is learning about that stuff.

Irisanya: Absolutely. I unfortunately didn't go to the schools that did anything with Greek mythology. That would have been handier, but I'm catching up.

Kim:  I don't remember if mine did or not, but I lived in the library. 

Irisanya: Me too. Absolutely. 

Kim: That's... I don't remember. I don't remember school very well. It's as far as what I don't know. Maybe we did. Maybe that's why I was in the library looking them up. But I remember the library more than class.

Irisanya: Oh, same. Absolutely. I, that, or you'd... were you the person too that had the stacks of books and... 

Kim: Yes. And the library, the librarian would choose the, eventually it was like, why don't you look at this one? And she would steer me. 

Irisanya: That is so sweet. That's sweet.

Kim: I love her.

Irisanya: I like that. I think that's so great. My mom was like that. She was, yeah, very much steering me towards the, you know, what was it, the Newberry Awards, whatever the award is for children's books. Yeah, it was a big thing. I had to read some of those if I was going to read The Babysitters Club. So I mean, that probably has also been formative. So, how do we balance these things? Not well.

Kim: (laughs) Well, let's bring us into present day. What is your practice like? Can you share any rituals or do you do anything consistently?

Irisanya: I love this question because I think it's apt. A lot of folks want to know about this. I have very consistent practices in the way that they're inconsistent. And I will explain this. There are certain things that I like to do, I just don't do them all the time. Because I have recently been, you know, one of the people who have gotten diagnosed with ADHD, which makes a whole heck of a lot of sense these days. So the most frequent ritual or daily practice that I do will look something like starting off with some sort of meditation, or something like that. Just being silent or sometimes I've used like an app in the past and things like that. And then some sort of devotional practice. So that can look like a prayer, it can look like going to one of my altars, most often Aphrodite, and that can be just sitting with them. I don't need to really do anything. It's more of...  a return to attention, and intention, for building that relationship. And I think the other thing that I would consider part of a practice for me is getting outside. Being outside. I's better if I'm not listening to anything or trying to do something at the same time, as I'm wont to do. But getting out into nature and being silent with myself, being silent with the sounds of the beings around me often, I'm one of those people that wakes up really, really early in the morning, so I will often go for a walk when it's dark and it's quiet and nobody's around. And that's how I connect back into this world and the elements and the things that are calming and grounding. But those are the basic ones. It's mutated a lot over the years. There used to be real fancy daily practices. I'm not a big fan of that anymore.

Kim:  Well, because it's fun when you're first starting out, you're like, out like oh I'm a witch and I'm gonna do 700 ceremonial rituals.

Irisanya: Dopamine heaven. Dopamine heaven. Absolutely. It's so great and sparkly. 

Kim: And now I'm just thinking man I'm tired but I know I need to get this done.

Irisanya: "I know it would be great. I know I tell people to do it all the time, so perhaps I should do that too." 

Kim: "You should meditate a ground. I'm going to take a nap."

Irisanya:  I am. I will not be doing that. No, I will not be doing that as frequently as I probably should. Says the fire sign. Yes.

Kim: Would you say witchcraft has changed your life?

Irisanya: Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. I would say that witchcraft has changed my view on life, the way I experience life, the way that I can encounter challenges and complexity. It has, without sounding too like... whatever this might sound like, it brought me home. It brought me home to myself. It's allowed me to trust myself. It has helped me to know myself in all the ways that I am. In all of the really wondrous things, and all of the things that we wish we would work on a little bit more. But mostly it's reminded me of my power, and it allows me to have tools and experiences, that remind me of my power again and again. 

Kim: What would you say is the biggest motivator in your practice? 

Irisanya: That also depends on the day. I think right now the biggest motivator in my practice is slightly self-serving, but also hopefully serving for a greater community. I am motivated have tools and connections that resource me, I feel like I'm in a world that is severely lacking in hope and it's hard. So I am motivated by the idea that witchcraft and magic can connect me back to that hope and hopefully serve to help others too. I think we are lost without having some semblance of hope. So I guess at the core of that, the motivation of that is, I don't want to say fear, but it is concern about this world and concern about the world, you know, the physical part, but also the beings that are in it. And so my practice is hopefully something that helps to serve me and keep me resilient and strong for the things that I know are coming, or that I think are coming, and that also might serve and inform other folks. I'm motivated by what happens around me, and how I can respond most effectively. 

Kim: I want to do that. 

Irisanya: Mhmmm, mhmmm. It's a part of the heart magic that has just been something that I've been forming. 

Kim: I want to know more about that. 

Irisanya: Yeah, me too. So, funny story. I have a lot of, I have like a personal story that sort of starts off with, I had this medical thing happen and they tried to stop my heart, because they had to do it to help it, and they tried to do that a couple of times and my heart just wouldn't stop. It was like, nope, we're not doing this. And so ever since then I've been wondering about, wondering about the heart, and wondering about what that magic is. That stubbornness, that fierceness, that center place of us. The thing that we all have in common, even though it might sound different, it might act differently, it might respond differently and all that. So from that, and from this desire to, you know, continue to, I think I said with one person wants to continue to see the world through hope colored glasses. I thought about like, what would be the foundation of supporting my heart in all of this? And at least in this moment, here's what it looks like, is how How do I support myself? So a lot of folks would say self-care. I like to say self-devotion because I think that has a different tone to it. I think self-care has been a little corrupted by capitalism and all of that.

Kim: Yeah. Treat yourself.

Irisanya:  So I think about that. Right, exactly! And I am all for that. You know, do what you need to do in this very intense world and situation. Also that. But also self-devotion, like how am I showing up for Irisanya tomorrow? Like it's fine to show up for me today, but also how can I show up for her tomorrow? Because she's going to need support too. So thinking about self-devotion, and then also thinking about how can we, anybody, cultivate, create a relationship with something bigger? Divine? I don't really care what people- it doesn't have to be a god, it could be a tree, the ocean, it could be something else that I can't think of right now. But cultivating something that is bigger, something that is wider and wise, someone or something or some connection that will always remind you that you're not alone. And then...

Kim: Man!

Irisanya: Yeah, yeah, I know, right? 

KIm: This is killing me! There are so many weird synchronicities happening in my life.

Irisanya: Oh, okay. All right. Well good. That's it. That's the thing. That's the thing. Okay and also I would say that the third thing is, how do we do this as part of community? Because we don't do this alone. We have ourselves, we have Divine, but we also really please everybody. We are part of a community. How can we show up for each other? How can we cultivate community care? How can we cultivate networks of connection, mutual aid, all of that, to sustain ourselves throughout this whole practice of holding hearts, of holding each other, of this wondrous spell that we are. How do we do all that? And so I think all these things are connected. And that's at least what I'm working on. And yes, Aphrodite had a hand in all this. And it doesn't have to be just her. S that's my magic right now, amongst other things. 

Kim: I get so excited when I hear really good insightful things because I'm so amazed that I'm the one sharing it with people. (laughs)

Irisanya:  Oh that makes my heart happy. 

Kim: Because what you said just had a lot of holy shits for me, which sounds really bad. That's, I meant that in a good way. (laughs)

Irisanya: No, I I take that as positive feedback. 

Kim: Okay good. 

Irisanya: I am a big fan. I have a slight reputation, as a teacher, of either of making people cry, and, and/or my voice, I guess, or something, like some way I do something, people either will cry or they'll fall asleep like when I'm doing trance, when I do trances and things like that. Like they just sort of are able to settle. I don't know.

Kim:  I have a reputation for crying, so look out. (laughs)

Irisanya: Hey I'm ready. I am ready, I've been here before. (laughs) I can I meet it.

Kim:  Would you say that you have imposter syndrome about your practice? 

Irisanya: I, yes. I think, sometimes I get the question of how do you how do you like deal with imposter syndrome? And my answer to that is I don't. I let it be there because it's all part of sitting with hard things. Yeah, of course I have imposter syndrome. I think that I continuously am going to get found out for not knowing something because I don't know everything. Shocker. I also, like learning a little bit about my neurodivergent brain now, it makes a lot of sense. I know a lot of things, but I don't always remember them. And that really triggers my imposter syndrome. (laughs) So like I know it, it's in a book that I wrote, but I can't remember it right now. (laughs) So what I usually do to deal with imposter syndrome, is I just let it be. I let it be there. I let it, you know, I sometimes will have a slight conversation with it, like, okay, why are we showing up right now? And then if it's still feeling like it's getting in the way of something, then I will, I have a, I have a document on either my desktop or a drive somewhere, I can't remember which now, that lists all of the things that I've done, which, which, which related, all the books, all the classes, all the things I've created, all the collaborations, and all of that, to remind myself that no, no, you've done probably this before, and you do know things. People believe that you know things. And eventually, I don't actually think it's probably ever going to get easier. I think it's just part of it, I think it's just part of this way of creating things and showing up for the things that you're really excited about. And you always want to do them better. At least I do.

Kim: When you said you make a list, I got really shrill in my head with excitement. (laughs)

Irisanya: Aha. It helps.

Kim: But I realize I do that too. I just don't have it physically or like not even physically. I don't even have it like typed up on the internet somewhere, but I do.

Irisanya: Mhmmm, mhmmm. It's really helpful.

Kim: "I must have some value X, Y, and Z happened."

Irisanya: Right, and I think... 

Kim: Which is so terrible to say about yourself or to yourself or to anyone else, but that's what it is.

Irisanya: Oh, it's so true. I mean, it's very much like, you know, I have kind of an argument about this in my head. I was like, is that just capitalism going like, "Well, if you've done this much, then you're okay." I mean, probably. There's probably informed by that, but also when I, I actually created it because I was going to teach a class that I taught before, but it was, I don't know, it was planned in a way that was different than what I taught before. And I was just so nervous ahead of time, so nervous. And so I was like, wait, get out a list. Let's write it all down. How many times have you taught this before? And it just settled me. Because even if something went forward that was unexpected or anything like that, I remembered that I have dealt with most things before, and I will deal with it again if it comes up. If I forget what I'm saying or whatever. It just helps me. And it helps me because I'm one of those people that have a really hard time being proud of things that I do. I do the thing, I think it's great, it's wonderful, 10 seconds later, what are we doing next? So having a list is really helpful to ground me a little bit and go, "No, no, you have done things. Celebrate for a sec and take that in, and maybe hold on to it. So the imposter syndrome isn't as bad the next time."

Kim: Just this morning, you know that meme that is, says like eight out of 10 guys say that, those may not be the numbers, I remember the number eight. 

Irisanya: Okay.

Kim: Said that they think they could score a point off Serena Williams. 

Irisanya: Oh yeah. 

Kim: Which to me is laughable.

Irisanya: Oh my.

Kim: And I just tell myself, think of yourself the way those dudes are thinking of themselves. Because I mean, what's going to happen? What is going to happen if you get called out? One, you might be right. And two, you're not going to end up homeless or dead. Probably. 

Irisanya: No, no-

Kim: Because that's what my brain immediately does. "You're going to die."

Irisanya: Oh, absolutely.

Kim: But I probably won't.

Irisanya: No, probably not. I say that to folks learning how to do ritual, you know, maybe for the first time. It's like the truth of the matter is if you do a circle casting, whatever wrong means, like not the way I've taught it. No one's going to die. It's going to be fine. We're just going to move on, because magic is, will do what it needs to do and we'll follow the things that it does more often than not. So let it go. And I think there is another meme that when you said that one reminded me that all these folks that have imposter syndrome, like think about the fact that like Elon Musk is over at Twitter just running around breaking stuff. And we're all, so many people think he's a genius. Like, like he just runs around and break stuff just for fun. Like, and he is in charge of Twitter. So maybe, maybe you're okay. (Kim laughs) Maybe, maybe it's all right. Maybe you are as good as other people probably say you are. And maybe you can take that in. 

Kim: When you said "Whatever wrong is", I love it. (Irisanya laughs) Especially with witchcraft, because everybody has an opinion about it. I try to shut mine up because mine doesn't apply to anybody else but me. But yes, whatever wrong is, I love it. It makes me happy.

Irisanya: I say that whenever even I'm teaching core classes in reclaiming. Yes, I'm going to teach you the way that I was taught. And I'm going to encourage you to think about what feels better for you, because that is going to be more in tune with your energy and probably be a stronger source of magic for you. Like, yes, air and yellow, but if yellow doesn't work for you, then maybe it's a different color. I'm not wedded to things looking a certain way, because people are all different. And that's part of the fun of it, I think. 

Kim: Yellow comes in so many shades, because when you said that, my first thought was illness, like jaundice. But also, I also use yellow, a different shade, for happiness and sunshine and energy. So correspondence gives me issues. 

Irisanya: Yeah, I'm not the hugest fan of those. I don't... I will say the things that are, there's something I often say in reclaiming is that I say "Often, but not always", because I think that's probably more helpful. Like often we do it like this, but not always. So it gives...

Kim: That is helpful. 

Irisanya: Right. Like I think it gives permission in a way that I don't always read or have heard from other folks. I'm not saying the only person that's ever done this, to be clear, but I think, you know, let there be some space for things, because it's so easy when there's just one way of doing things for somebody to feel like, I'm not going to do this because I don't want to do this wrong. And then they just don't do it. I want people to do things, right? Like just do things and try them. You're not going to know until you try. And if you find, like you said, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? Well, besides, you know, you're not probably going to become hurt or homeless or anything like that. The worst thing, and I don't think this is a worst thing, is that you might learn something about yourself. And you might not have done that until you made the mistake.

Kim: Yeah. I thought of another worse thing, but I'm not going to say it because I don't want anybody else to think about it. 

Irisanya: Right, right, you didn't hear it here. You did not hear it here. 

Kim: Nope. The worst thing is that thing you just heard, which is actually pretty great.

Irisanya: Right? It is. We are challenging. Things can be challenging. 

Kim: Well, speaking of that, what is your biggest struggle when it comes to witchcraft? 

Irisanya: (laughs) I have a friend that says, her quote is, "Community would be great if it weren't for all the people." And I think sometimes the struggle is, you know, and I don't think community is a struggle, but it is definitely one of the challenges. It is a challenge because witchcraft is not a monolith. It is not one thing. It is not one agreed to set of practices. There's a lot of consistency. There's a lot of, I don't know if agreement is the right word, but there are a lot of things that are similar. But I think the struggle for me sometimes is how we manage all that as a community. And I want to be clear that I don't actually don't think struggle is a negative thing. I think struggle is just a part of being human. experience this incarnation, if you will. And I don't think, as a community, or as communities, that we necessarily have all the tools to navigate that, to navigate the challenges, to navigate them with compassion, to navigate them with curiosity, and to navigate them realizing that we're all most likely just doing the best we can with what we have.

Kim: Seriously.

Irisanya: Mhmmm. Yeah. So I think it's an ongoing lesson. And it's a lesson in which I've actually learned the most. I have learned the most by being in community. I have learned the most from having conflict in community. I have learned the most from sitting in meetings and being frustrated with community. (laughs) And I actually think like that's, it's a gift. It is. As much as I wince saying that, it is a gift to have that struggle. Because I think we grow from it, mostly. Not all of us, but hopefully we do. Like I don't have struggles with, you know, my daily practice and I don't consider those struggles. I think other people and how we can do things well and hold each other well because we need each other.

Kim: I think we need struggle. If you don't have some struggle, then you don't have a chance to get strength. 

Irisanya: Right. You don't build capacity.

Kim: Like when you do weights, you have to have a weight.

Irisanya: I think, absolutely. I talked to somebody about this just the other day. Without ever navigating conflict, we don't build capacity. We don't build the capacity to not be shocked when it happens. And I think this is also something for me to say as a white person, it's the same thing with dealing with racism, and dealing with transphobia. If I don't engage in conversations that are difficult, I don't build capacity to show up and actually listen. Because that's the thing. If we don't have these tools around conflict, and these tools around navigating it, I, let's just pretend it's me joining that, I will step in defensive, and triggered, and unable to hear anybody, and it's all about me. 

Kim: I was thinking the words shut down. 

Irisanya: Yeah. Sometimes, I mean, fight, flight, freeze, all of those, get activated. And of course you do, because it's scary, it's unsure, it does feel like a life or death situation. It's not.

Kim: A lot of times it is! Not for me, but a lot of times it is.

Irisanya:  I mean it can definitely, not for you, but... right, exactly, exactly, it can be for folks. So I think that that's something that I try to bring up, and I try to remember in the moments where things are not going the way that I would really want or hope or dream to have happen more gracefully.

Kim:  Well, let's move to a little bit more positive, not that it... isn't positivity, but what brings you the most joy in your practice? 

Irisanya: Welcome, welcome to somebody talking to a reclaiming witch. I'm always going to talk about the activism stuff. What brings me the most joy? I am... so many things. Oh, my brain just went really full when you said that.

Kim: Yay!

Irisanya:  I was like, I would like to be, I would like to do this. I would like to talk. The most joy in my practice, one of my most favorite things in magic is the times where I get to lead trances, and lead people through journeys through their subconscious, alongside it, to gods, to places in their lives that were challenging but they can meet them in a safe place, and may be find healing or wisdom or a moment to be angry that would be safer. I find such joy in watching people really realize that they are already magic, that they don't have to do anything, they don't have to be anything, they don't have to prove anything. Those moments where folks are held enough in a container that they can release the things that they need to release, that they can step up and say here's what I want. And especially my big thing is that, if anything, I am so honored and feel so much joy when someone says, oh, I realize I'm not alone in all of this.

Kim: Yeah, I love that.

Irisanya:  So for me, it's all about the moments of when we can step outside of all of the confines, all of the shoulds, and all of the things that people keep saying, you know, is the right way to live or the right way to be or all that. When we can be a magical space and step into what is also reality, and what is, I think, our power. We can really see that. So that brings me joy. I mean, it brings joy when I do that. Hopefully I can be of service for other folks to feel like that, to step into that, to that, oh, what might be actually called grace. I think grace is actually a good version.

Kim: I love that term, used in that way.

Irisanya: Right, I think so. It's a body feeling, that word, for me. One of the things I think has come up for me and it came up really organically once in this witch camp that I was teaching at in Australia. A friend of mine, we were both on the teaching team together and they were talking about like this, they were just kind of falling into the magic, as you do. Falling into the space, falling into the energy and said something about like this love spell of life. And I was like, oh, that's really, I really like that. And later on, by the end of the day, I'd written a song that was called, that is called, Life is a Love Spell. And I will just say the lyrics. I am not going to sing right now. (both laugh) So it's Life is a Love Spell. You say that a bunch of times. And the rest of it is we belong to dark. We belong to light. We belong to the ecstatic dance of life. And it repeats a lot. There are layers that you can do over it. Things like that. It is-

Kim: Like row, row, row your boat?

Irisanya:  Sort of, like you can...

Kim: I can't remember what that's called, but like that? That would be cool.

Irisanya: A round.

Kim A round, Oh my gosh. around a campfire and everybody is doing rounds, ooooo!

Irisanya: So if we want to add another joy of magic, that's another joy, is teaching a song and having everybody sing it at you. It's great, it's wonderful. But like, life is a lot of...

Kim: That's magic AF.

Irisanya: It is, it's magic AF, or it's witchy AF, as some folks in our tradition have coined. So this whole idea of life is a love spell as we're continuously in this dance. We are in this dance of connection. We move in, we move out, but it is a dance that keeps going. And this isn't just about romantic love. It's not just about, you know, all the things that Hallmark wants to sell. It is about that deep love of self, that deep love of Earth, that deep love of community. You can find it. This deep love of, you know, different reasons to be an activist, deep love of your cats, whatever.

Kim: Existence, hopefully.

Irisanya: Right, this existence, but it's all about the ecstasy of this and remembering that that is the bigger thing here. And that, you know, all the different things, capitalism wants to rip us away from that. The quote unquote, powers that be want to rip us away from that, but there is still this dance. And if we can jump back into that, we can move easily in and out of things that are hard. We can move more easily with each other, we can remember again, we're not alone in this. And so that is like, there's a thread through my magic. That is the one. It is also the idea that it is not just a communication between humans. I think about mycelium, I think of the trees, I think of all of that. It's all a spell that we're weaving, and we're dancing. And may the dance continue as long as possible.

Kim: Yeah. Let's move to something bad! (laughs)

Irisanya: Mhmmm, Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm ready for anything. 

Kim: What is your biggest fear in witchcraft or your practice?

Irisanya:  My biggest fear in witchcraft? I don't know if I have a lot of them actually. I'm not afraid of doing things wrong. I'm not afraid of forgetting the words of a song. I have done that in ritual. (laughs) I've done that. It's fine. People are really kind because people are kind, really. Most people are rooting for you. So I completely forgot the words to a song. Completely. And I just made stuff up. 

Kim: Yeah, you!

Irisanya:  Yeah, well, you know, it's practice and learning in public, and lots and lots of public ritual. I guess that, like, if I really wanted to drop really in and go like, Okay, but really, what are you afraid of in witchcraft? I am afraid, I think most of the kind of witch wars that I see, I don't like those. I don't know if I fear them. I don't like them. Sometimes I feel like there are conversations about "This is the way it has to look in order for it to be a valid practice." Or that if you don't know everything about history, then you don't understand things. I guess I fear... 

Kim: Or that you're a fake.

Irisanya:  Yeah, right, or like, I, you know, I'm not a, I'm not a big fan of all of remembering things. (Kim laughs) My brain can't do it. I wrote books and I could go back to my own stuff to look it up. I just, I just fear either the idea that everything becomes so separated that what the heck does witchcraft even mean anymore, or too homogenized. I think that there has to be sort of a space for everything and I wish and I hope that that can continue to happen. I imagine it will, but that's a fear. I really fear that there's gonna, you know, humans get together, they want to all go towards often one place because it's easier. I would like, I fear that we're going to lose paradox, we're going to lose complexity, and I don't want to. I would like to keep it, you know, mysterious, and sometimes hard to explain, and that's okay.

Kim: What a not scary fear but also so good.

Irisanya: Right?

Kim: I mean, not scary in that I'm not afraid I'm going to die. 

Irisanya: Right, exactly. Like it's not a life or death thing for me. But also, I just, when I answer things like that, I think of folks who are new to witchcraft. That's what I think of. The rest of us will all figure it out. We'll just do what we're going to do. But folks who are new and are just, it's a lot of information these days. It's a lot. And it's overwhelming. And I get that. I guess I wish witchcraft started less with like, here's how you cast a circle, and more with, here's how you know yourself, and here's how you know what's right for you. 

Kim: I wish life did that. 

Irisanya: I mean, to be fair, there are a lot of things we did not learn. 

Kim: Here's what I did not learn.

Irisanya: We learn a lot growing up. It's actually one of my things about like, here's what I wish community had. Wish community had the tools of self-regulation. And, right?

Kim: Yes, holy crap.

Irisanya: Right? Right? I mean, me too. I'm not perfect by any stretch. Like I wish we all had, like we're all taught the tools of self-regulation and being able to differentiate between, is that person pissing me off or is something from my past activated right now? 

Kim: Mm-hmm.

Irisanya:  I think that would solve a lot of problems. Prevent a lot of problems.

Kim: Yeah. When I was so emphatic in my yes, I was thinking of myself, not...

Irisanya: Oh yeah, oh yeah. 

Kim: "This persons' really gonna, I wasn't thinking about other people."

Irisanya: Oh sure. Yeah, we always think of ourselves, but I always feel like I have to say, no, no, I'm talking about me. It's not... this song is not about you, but it might be. (Kim laughs)  So you do you.

Kim: What's something early in your practice that you don't do anymore and why don't you?

Irisanya: I think this goes along with what we were just saying. I don't listen to people without asking questions anymore. I, you know, early in my practice, it was, hey, I have this book, I'm going to do this practice just as it is, and I'm not going to ask any questions. And it feels weird, and I don't know if I like it, but I'm going to keep doing it because that's what this book says I'm supposed to do. 

Kim: That sounds like Christianity. 

Irisanya: Right, exactly. So apparently, I would imagine I did that because, ooh, this feels comfy, right? Like it feels comfortable, sure. But I don't do that anymore. I mean, I might try something out as it is written, once. And then adjust. My question is-

Kim: Like recipes. 

Irisanya: Right, exactly, exactly. You kind of need to know the landscape before you start tinkering. Maybe. I don't know. I don't do that. But I hear that that's what people should do. But yeah, so I don't, I don't sort of take things and go like, this is the way. It was so easy for me to do that in the beginning. You know, my first books were, I think, what a lot of people have had. You know, Scott Cunningham, Ray Buckland. Thankfully, fairly quickly after that was Spiral Dance.

Kim: Mhmmm.

Irisanya: But, like, even like, like Silver Ravenwolf was in there too. And there were just a lot of really, a lot of steps to things. I'm not a, I'm a simple sort of being these days. I would rather follow my gut and follow, well, more so, follow what I have on hand. I'm not going to go out and buy a certain thing, right? I'm probably not, probably, unless it's really pretty and shiny and then probably. Like, what do I have? You know, magic at its core, we all made this stuff up at some point. So why are we not doing that now? Which is not to say people shouldn't buy books. Buy books from witchcraft authors! But I would also say, you know, how, what, what is...

Kim: It's okay to question.

Irisanya:  Right. Work, you know, work with what works for you, too. You know, if you don't have the pink candle, it's probably going to be okay. 

Kim: (laughing) Why does candle color magic always come up? 

Irisanya: Because a lot of us have a lot of feelings. It always does. We have a lot of feelings about this, and also, sometimes you can't find a stupid colored candle. So annoying. 

Kim: What would you say is your favorite tool in your practice? It doesn't have to be a physical thing.

Irisanya: No, I wouldn't answer it like that. My first thing I would say, when I'm all witchy and magical, I'm like, oh, it's my heart. That's really the tool. But also, I'm going to swing right on this. My athame is my favorite tool. I actually think, physically, that's my favorite tool. My heart is my favorite spell that's ongoing. Love my athame. I've had it for years. It is gorgeous, and pointy, and has been through a lot of rituals that have changed me, and that have also been in service to a lot of folks. I, Athme is a tool of discernment, tool of creating containers in which magic-y things can happen. And the tool that reminds me of my access to power, and the responsibility that also comes with that. 

Kim: I love that. I had one for like decades. And it was beautiful and it felt so good in my hand, but I never once used it, so I eventually sold it last year. 

Irisanya: Smart, so smart to discern that. See, discernment. 

Kim: It was giving to me and I didn't even know. 

Irisanya: Uh-huh. Sometimes lessons of discernment come in strange shiny packages. 

Kim: But I hope the person who bought it gets more use out of it than I did because all I did was keep it in a box for many many years and then sometimes get it out to look at. 

Irisanya: Absolutely, and you know, it probably charged up with the things that next person needs. That's the way I like to think of it. 

Kim: If you could only recommend one book to a new witch, what would it be? You're allowed to say your own books if you want to.

Irisanya: (laughs) That is, yeah. So no, it's... one book. One book. I will say, and I'm not saying this because I'm a reclaiming witch, I would say Spiral Dance. I do say that book, because I think that it is a good foundation for folks who are new to witchcraft. I think we have definitely, as a tradition, grown since then, and we do things differently. And I think it's a good foundation. 

It was one of the first books I read. It will lead you through the things that we will talk about in Elements of Magic for the first core class of reclaiming. So and you know, how to how to do ritual, which is great. I think it's a nice start and it has stories and stuff in it too, which I'm a big fan of. 

Kim: I honestly I do not remember what was in the book, but I remember when I read it a billion years ago thinking "Holy shit!"

Irisanya: Yep. I remember reading...

Kim: Things could be different. It doesn't have to be all this weird stuff that I read about in Mastering Witchcraft.

Irisanya: Right? or, you know. Bless Buckland. But you know, it doesn't have to be like that. It can be what... the energy of that book still feels very co-created to me. And I think that was new to me. And it also felt collaborative, which, you know, all the other books, I was kind of solitary for a while. So it was kind of a solitary thing. I don't know. I think Spiral is just a good starting point. Absolutely.

Kim: I agree. 

Irisanya: And also there's a wondrous moment where you're reading all of that, at least for me, reading all of that and seeing names of folks. And I was like, ooh, that's so neat, like these stories about witch- And then I met some of them. So they're real. They're real people. So that's... wow, when magic jumps off the page, it's fascinating. These are real folks.

Kim: So you live on the West Coast?

Irisanya: I do. I do.

Kim: Would you say that environment shaped your practice? And if you lived like in Europe, do you think it would be different based on what you have access to, not talking about culture?

Irisanya: So I can actually give you an answer based on hands-on experience. I have been really lucky. I have taught on three different continents, and I've taught witchcraft on three different continents. So I will give you a wide answer to this. I grew up in the Midwest. When I was a witch there, that magic was absolutely different. There are stories on that land that are not the stories of other lands. There is energy that is there that is not energy that is in other places. And geography, and things like that. It, because you're in different seasons, a lot of things happened indoors a lot of the year. In California, a lot of things happend outside for a lot of the year, if people are willing to be in the rain. And I mean, let's be fair. So I've done ritual in the rain. So there's that. In California, this land out here has different stories, has had different people, and does feel different. It has, the rituals are different, they're often longer, they are often engaging with, I have taught at and have been a camper at a camp that's amongst redwoods. So those, that's different being amongst the redwoods, it's a different experience, you interact differently and call in different spirits and things like that. But I've also taught in Canada, that land is very different and invokes, evokes different experiences, and probably invokes too. I have taught in the UK. I, my lineage, my ancestry is from around that area. That felt like home. The magic I did there felt very inspired and intuitive. And then I've taught in Australia on that land and that land feels really angry and it feels like...

Kim: That makes me sad.

Irisanya: Right? It's had a lot of stuff happen. And so that feels like it is an invitation into magic that is more about finding a way of healing, without skipping the acknowledgement of everything that's happened to that land. It is a, I feel like a very fierce ancestral energy of, "We need to figure out what right relationship looks like." So yeah, I definitely, land influences and changes, rituals on each of these places look different. The structure might be similar, but it's different. You don't, in Australia, casting a circle is a different venture. It's in a different hemisphere. You're in a different season. The water, you know, I'm in California so I think west and water. You know, that's not true for every place. I hope that land informs practice. Gosh, I hope so. I know that moving to California and having the land and weather be so different from what I was used to, definitely, it took me a minute to figure out how to support that and how to work with that.

Kim: Now, looking back, I'm wondering if I've talked to anybody who hasn't moved, like stayed in their hometown or at least in their home state. Because I feel like witches seem to be all over the place all the time, constantly moving. 

Irisanya: Constantly-

Kim:  And from people who would answer that question, no, I wouldn't I... Somebody might have said no. I don't recall. I think maybe we're having a different sort of conversation. But I wanted I want to talk to somebody who... Okay, so people out there, if you have never left your hometown and you're a witch, come talk to me about this question.

Irisanya: I guess I'm curious if you have a very structured practice that, you know, ritual works a certain way all the time, then you would say, well, no, because it wouldn't change. I would think the energy would change though. But-

Kim: Yeah!

Irisanya:  I think I couldn't help it. Because hopefully you're in relationship to the place that you're at. Because that's part of this too. Earth is also not a monolith. 

Kim: 500 points for word usage.

Irisanya: Right? I know. And I said it twice already. Yikes. Yikes. 

Kim: How do you pull yourself out of a magical slump? 

Irisanya: (laughs) I don't. No, well, I mean, I don't really. To a certain extent. Well, because I used to think that, I don't know. I think... even in relationship, that when something is not feeling good that you need to pull yourself out of it right away, and I don't think that's true. I think that there is something probably really informative in that moment. It might not feel like it. So I typically try, keyword try, to let myself be in it for a little bit. Let myself be in a slump, you know, drop the things that aren't working, try to figure out maybe where it's coming from without judgment about it. You know, everything moves in cycles, so do we. I just be with it until I'm excited about something again. And usually that happens when I just go back to the quote-unquote basics. You know, spending more time outside, taking care of myself better, trying to eat more vegetables, drink more water, get more sleep. And usually just coming back to the being that I am, and coming back to maybe the emotions that are sort of coming up, or maybe there's just something that happened in my life, but meeting all that and just being with myself until I get inspired to do something, and then I move in that direction. I think if anything, slumps aren't bad, they're just part of it. When I want to rush through things, it doesn't always go well. It feels hard. It feels like I did something wrong. Most of the time you haven't. Maybe it's just a moment of you need to care for yourself a bit better. Maybe you do need to clean off your altars. Maybe that's something you can do. But most of the time it's just because that's just the season that you're in. And if the moon can be, you know, hidden sometimes, so can I. It'll be okay. And you'll move through.

Kim: Oh, I love when we compare ourselves to the moon.

Irisanya: Right? Big fan. Big fan. For obvious reasons.

Kim: Now, obviously, based on things you said in this interview, you work with other witches.

Irisanya: I do.

Kim: What is that like? I don't. 

Irisanya: Yeah, right. It's a well in the pandemic, it's a little different. So I did start out as solitary. And so I do remember those days. And then I had a coven, and then that blew up, and then I was solitary again, and then I found Reclaiming. What I will say about working in a group is that I prefer it. I prefer working with folks who are hopefully on a similar/same page. I think that it helps me feel witnessed in things that I might be facing. It helps me get inspired by the different magic of other folks. I feel really nourished in co-created magic because it allows me to not always be the person holding a big chunk of magic. As a public priestess, I often am. But when you're in a community, you step in, step back, and release it, ideally. I think that magic in public or magic in community, I think it's just, it becomes a place where you can also have things reflected back to you. Where people can offer feedback or insights that you wouldn't necessarily have access to on your own. Which, you know, might feed into conflict and things like that. But often it is... I grow a lot. And I've heard, at least in a lot of spaces, that we actually heal more in community. We grow more in community because we feel safe. We're not actually meant to do all this stuff on our own. So I prefer it. I prefer it, even when I don't. Because that's part of it. That's part of it. You know, like your family, your family's great until it isn't. And that's also true. It can be both and. Both and.

Kim: Wow. My black and white thinking hates that. But guess what? Grey exists. Stop it right now.

Irisanya: Okay. It does exist. It's very uncomfortable and itchy. I totally understand it. I'm not a fan. And I, it, for some reason it started to click in the last little bit, and it's probably the pandemic. Like, you know, recognizing that there's some people that I have to hold like differently now, but I still love them, but I don't agree with everything. And I still love them. So how do I do that?

Kim:  I'm glad you can.

Irisanya: Maybe I'm doing it, who knows? It's a practice, like everything. It's a practice. Not a perfection. 

Kim: Who or what would you say are the three biggest influences on your practice? 

Irisanya: Today I would say that the biggest influences are the ocean, heartbreak...

Kim: (quietly) Oh, no!

Irisanya: ... and the toss up between the moon and poetry. So I'm going to go with four. I'm going to go with four. Ocean, heartbreak, poetry.

Those are some of the funnest... oh my god. heartbreak.

Irisanya: Mhmmm.

Kim: It squeezes my chest! Oh that's so good and so terrible at the same time...

Irisanya: It's so true. Hearts can get broken a whole bunch of different ways, and magic is very helpful for holding those pieces. 

Kim: Man. Do you have any advice for new witches? 

Irisanya: Always. You are...

Kim: Besides what you've already given. (laughs)

Irisanya: Besides what I've already said?  No, I can think of other things. Don't worry, I have plenty. New witches starting out. Follow what excites you, and try things out. You are allowed to like things that other people don't like. You are allowed to make mistakes. You are allowed to not know if this is the right thing, and you're allowed to change your mind later. It's okay. But have fun with it, because really, like, sometimes magic is so, and witchcraft, are so serious sometimes, and it's, I think it all started off as being fun. So please, hold on to the fun and the joy of it as long as possible. And that happens by just trying stuff out and seeing what works for you. 

Kim: Hmm. I like it.

Irisanya:  Don't listen to just white guys. 

Kim: (laughs) Jesus H.

Irisanya: Don't just listen to that. 

Kim: I can't, I can't jump into that hole right now, we are running out of time. 

Irisanya: I know me neither. We'll have to, we might have to do this again. This is going to be the after show.

Kim: Who do you think I should have on the show? Who do you think would, you would want to hear answer these questions? 

Irisanya: So I actually, there's a few people. So and some people that, anyways. First person that comes to mind is I am a big fan person of Mortellus, who wrote, I think it's Do I Have to Wear Black? Necromancy, and also just a really cool being. I know them personally. Love them. Another person who is, the next couple of folks are actually friends of mine. Their name is Raven Edgewalker, and they are the proprietor of Green Woman Crafts. They've been on Etsy forever. They are in the UK. And, you know, but they're also part of the Reclaiming tradition, and they have just some really wondrous magics to share with the world. And and then another person that I really think people would like to hear from is, her name is Emily, and she is the person who has started Wise Woman Witchery. And she...

Kim:  I follow them on Instagram!

Irisanya:  Yeah, so they're a friend of mine, too. So I am naming people that I know, because I like them and I think other people would. (both laugh) And I know thinking about like some of the things that you and I've talked about today, I was like, I'd love to hear how they answered that. And so I think I would know some of them, but those are folks that are super interesting. A lot of folks, you know, aren't necessarily tapped into, you know, these folks.

Kim: I'm gonna put them on my list.

Irisanya: Nice!

Kim: Thank you.

Irisanya: Absolutely.

Kim: Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about that I didn't ask or did you have questions for me?

Irisanya: The only thing I haven't really talked about is my books. So I'm going to talk a little bit about that. 

Kim: Yay!

Irisanya: I don't need to go into a whole bunch of things. So a couple of folks have named me as a prolific writer, because I am, (Kim laughs) and I'm a person that, because I am, you know, if you've heard Hamilton and the one line in the song, "Why do you write like you're running out of time?" That hit hard for me when I heard that line. I've written a lot of books because I'm that person. So the books that I have written go like this. I wrote a book on Reclaiming Witchcraft as my first book. These are all with my publisher Moon Books. So I have a book on Reclaiming Witchcraft, I wrote a book on Aphrodite. I also wrote a book on sort of health and well-being from the pagan perspective, because I'm a big fan of these self-care, self-devotion spaces. I have a book out on Iris because there aren't any books on Iris, but there are now. And so, very strange. So I wrote a book on Iris. And my most recent book that was published is called Honoring the Wild, which is on Reclaiming witchcraft and environmental activism. That just came out in February, and it's a collection of stories from folks within our tradition about various actions, or magic, or rituals, or things like that, to support environmental activism.

Kim: I like that!

Irisanya: Yeah, it's a I'm a big fan of, I really think that story is what will motivate change in the world. And so I like to collect stories, because I think, like I said, you can read, you know, lists of things that "Here's how to help the earth!" and that's fine. But if you're not like connected, and it doesn't feel like it impacts real people, I don't I don't think we shift our behaviors as easily, so so those are the books that have been published at this point. But coming soon this summer in July, I wrote a book on the Norns. It's called The Norns, Weavers of Fate and Magic. So I'm really excited about that. I worked with the Norns for a long time. In, I think it's December, another sort of Earth spirit book is coming out, and it's on Gaia. And Gaia is a...

Kim: Three books in one year?!

Irisanya: Yeah.

Kim: Holy moly!

Irisanya: You have to remember, I wrote these like a year ago.

Kim: Still!

Irisanya: Yeah. Thank goodness, you know, pandemic's been a big container for writing. I mean, all of my books have come out during a pandemic, which is very strange for authors. I digress. And, yeah, and so those are the books that are sort of, and I just finished Artemis, but I have no idea when it's coming out. So that, but you know, for folks who are here and behind the secret wall of things, I'm going to, my next book I'm writing is on Circe. So I'm excited about that. So I write a lot of books. 

Kim: I like her. 

Irisanya: Yeah, I do. I do too. I'm getting to know her now as we're going through this process. I, yeah, so I am an author. I love to write books that aren't necessarily about instructing you in things. There are stories and history and facts and things like that in there, but there's also more... sort of inspiration to find your own practice, to figure out how to build relationships in a way that's authentic for you. So that's the line through things, and I have practices in there that you can totally change, fine by me. And all of this is sort of with this whole idea of what is authentic to you, what is authentic to your life's spell, like what sings your song, and what gets you excited to be magic-y and witchy and, or whatever whatever you call it. But I like to write about the gods, and about ways that we can hold ourselves better, or more gently, hopefully. So, my website, you know, it's always the place to find all the things. And I also just self-published a poetry book because I hadn't done that yet, so I figured out how to do that. And I'm...

Kim: Cool! 

Irisanya: Yeah, because I write a lot of poetry on my social media, and people wanted it all in one place. That's not all of it, but it's a good chunk. 

Kim: And now at the end, I have two things that I like guests to give me. 

Irisanya: Okay. 

Kim: That's a new way. I'm trying a new way of phrasing it. 

Irisanya: I'm here for it. It's new to me. 

Kim: Number one, can you please recommend something to the listeners?

Irisanya:  Like a practice? Or...

Kim: Whatever you want. Whatever. Anything in your life. 

Irisanya: I know exactly what to recommend. Okay, for these moments of this world being the way that it is, every time you have a joyous, a happy, a moment where you're just filled up with good juicy gooey emotion, something that just feels really good. Every time you have these moments, in the way that works best for you, figure out a way to like form that into a little bal. Or I would actually say form it into a bubble. And allow that bubble to float off into space, knowing that the next time that your life feels unmanageable, or horrible, or that nothing's ever going to go right again, that that bubble will come back, and you can pop it, and you will come right back to all of those gorgeous feelings and remember who you are.

Kim: Wow. I thought you were gonna say write it down and put it in a jar to open on New Year's. (laughs)

Irisanya: Nope. 

Kim: Wow!

Irisanya: And you can make as many bubbles as you like.

Kim: Neat! The last thing is please tell me a story that you love to tell, preferably something that you would tell around a campfire. 

Irisanya: Once upon a time, I'm going to tell a story about me, because those are the stories I know best. Once upon a time, here's how I found Reclaiming. I was just a witch who was new to California, and didn't know anybody. I was working for myself, so didn't really have a chance to meet anybody. And my partner at the time was in this certain school program, and in that cohort was a witch who was one of the organizers of California Witch Camp. And she kept telling him, you know, your partner should go to this camp, it would just be amazing. And I hesitated because I didn't know her, and I didn't know this camp, and I barely knew Reclaiming. And eventually I decided, you know what, maybe I will go to this. And did the things that you do. Packed up all the things, got on ride share, and got into a car with a person I didn't know, with a whole bunch of stuff, and no idea what I was going to be in for. And the drive to where I am to the camp is a couple of hours long. With a new person, and I am an introvert. This wondrous being, who I still know today, throughout the car ride, explained to me the things that would be important for me to know about reclaiming before I got to camp. They explained to me about ritual, they explained to me about trance, they explained to me about aspecting, which is a possessory practice, and I can tell you to this day which bend of the road I learned those different things. And the road up to Mendocino. And the first night in that camp, with a whole bunch of people I did not know, I was in a ritual where I stood across from a person who I've never seen since, and I looked into their eyes, and I knew that this place was home. I knew without a doubt. I didn't know why, I didn't know how, but I knew in that moment, in dancing and singing around this huge campfire in the middle of a bunch of redwoods with a bunch of people I didn't know, with a bunch of magic I was just getting to meet, I knew that I was home. And I'm forever chasing that feeling of that homecoming.

Kim: Okay, you did it. You made me cry.

Irisanya: Yes! 

Kim: Good job! 

Irisanya: It was getting under the wire, but... true story. There's so much more to that story, but that's good. There's so much more to that story, but that's good.

Kim: I really relate to that. That's how I felt about Anahata's Purpose. I really relate to that.

Irisanya: It's just, it's one of those moments, I don't know if you have this, but this is either the worst mistake I've ever made or the best decision.

Kim: Exactly.

Irisanya: I couldn't tell. I was terrified and excited and I knew nobody. But you know, then it became home or it was home and I just made myself home.

Kim: Yeah. 

Irisanya: Yeah. I can still picture it.

Kim: Well, thank you for coming on the show. 

Irisanya: Yeah, thank you for having me. This was a lot of fun. It was good to think about all those things. 

Kim: I've lost my train of thought now because I'm crying. (laughs)

Irisanya: I've damaged. 

Kim: What happens now? What do I do next? 

Irisanya: I've had an impact. 

Kim: Okay, so everybody go check out her books, visit her website, and I will see you on the internet. And hopefully I will see you in September after I tell you about Anahata's Purpose after this.

Irisanya: Okay, yes, thank you so much. 

Kim: Bye.

Irisanya: Bye.

Kim: (fades in) Irisanya.

Irisanya: Yes.

Kim: Welcome to Patreon.

Irisanya: hank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Kim: Do you have any pets? (fades out)

Irisanya: (fades in) What I should also say about this place is like the basement that we were staying in, A, we were all by ourselves.

Kim: Oh no. A basement.

Irisanya: Oh yeah. A basement. A basement with a whole bunch of mirrors. And if anybody knows... (fades out)

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