Rachel Patterson. Author, teacher, and kitchen witch

In this episode I met Rachel Patterson, an author and witch from the UK. Rachel tells us about running a witch school, international rituals, and community.

Rachel's linktree

Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Clever Kim's Curios. In this episode, I met Rachel Patterson, an author and witch from the UK. Rachel tells us about running a witch school, online international rituals, and community. Before we get started though, I just want to remind you that over at Crepuscular Conjuration, Bee Box subscriptions are open now. Sign-ups are only open for three days and once I hit that magical and secret number, that's it. Each box contains a spell, what you need to do the spell, a crystal, some incense, and probably some kind of snack. Because as I've said repeatedly, I'm a Taurus, and that's how I roll. Head over to crepuscularconjuration.com to grab yours today. Now let's get to the stories.

Kim: Hello, Rachel, welcome to the show.

Rachel: Thank you for inviting me.

Kim: It's lovely to have you. Would you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you?

Rachel: Certainly. So I'm Rachel Patterson. I'm a, oh, let's put a label, pagan kitchen witch is probably the best way to describe me. I was described once as being a cocktail witch. I'm a bit eclectic. I'm a bit miscellaneous. I make things work for me basically. So I pick and mix really. I have been following this path for over 30 years now. I am very honoured to be High Priestess of the Kitchen Witch Coven and I co-run an online witchcraft school where we have students from across the globe who are a fantastic bunch of people. And I'm very lucky to have several, I think I'm at 24 now, books published by both Moon Books and Llewellyn. And I'm also about to have published in the next year or so some Oracle decks with Animal Dreaming Publishing House. So.

Kim: Oooo, that is a lot of things.

Rachel: I talk at pagan events, I do YouTube talks, I write for several pagan magazines, I'm a wife, I'm a mother, I own a sausage dog,  a wiener dog, I think you call them. (laughs) Yeah, I'm busy.

Kim: (laughs) Where can people find your school? Is it open enrolment or do you have specific...

Rachel: It's open enrolment and it's kitchenwitchhearth.net but if you look at my own website, rachelpatterson.co.uk, you'll find links there. You'll find me on social media as well. You can't miss me really.

Kim: All those links will be in the show notes, everybody, so just scroll down and click it.

Rachel: Thank you.

Kim: What does it mean to you when you call yourself a witch?

Rachel: It's an interesting one, isn't it? It took me probably several years before I actually felt, what's the word, brave enough or confident enough to call myself a witch. It was very strange at first. I've done the Wiccan training, I've done the three degrees, and I've done, well, I like to learn. I like to learn all sorts of things. So I do courses all the time. I'm always learning something. But I think, yeah, it is who I am. I have got to that stage where my life, who I am, what I am, it is as a witch. It all merges together. Even if I'm doing the housework, I'm a witch. It's really, I think it's my faith. It's my faith. It's my belief. It is the core of who I am. It really guides how I lead my life.

Kim: Me too.

Rachel: Good. We're all members of the club, but good.

Kim: I relate very, very hard. I relate real hard to that. Would you say you have any family history with practicing witchcraft or any stories from childhood of something that while your family might not say, hey, we're witches and this is what we do, it's still really witchy?

Rachel: Not witchcraft necessarily, although I do think a lot of my connection to nature and history is from my dad. He was always taking us to the ancient sites when we were kids. He loves history. But we'd go and sit on Stonehenge. Back in those days, it wasn't all fenced off. 

Kim: And you could touch it?

Rachel:  We would have picnics sitting on the stone in the centre of Stonehenge.

Kim: That's amazing.

Rachel:  You could just park up on the grass verge and go and have your picnic in the centre of it. It's mad really when you think about it now. But he was always taking us to ancient sites or on walks in nature, in the woods. He was organic gardening way before it was fashionable. So I think he kind of instilled that love of nature and the idea of, it was fascinating in where we came from, Anglo-Saxons and all the history of that. So I think that kind of helped. Later on I discovered that his mother was a Spiritualist. I didn't know when I knew her in her lifetime, but she was very much into that. So I think there's probably a vein of it. And I think probably as well, most of people my age, their grandmothers, great grandmothers, were probably all into folk magic of some sort. It was just what they did to heal things and legends and history and stories that were sort of passed down to families. The folk idea and of that generation was something that we all had. But no, none of the W word in particular, but I think there's a thin thread there somewhere. 

Kim: Can you tell us what your practice is like? Maybe talk about any consistent rituals you do, or just what it's like. What do you do? How does yours work?

Rachel: It's chaotic and twirly.

KIm: Well good. I approve.

Rachel: I am, I'm always up to something. I am a working wife and mother and there's always stuff to do. So my witchcraft comes into it, because I work with the magic of ingredients. I love baking. I love cake, baking, cookies, bread. So I put magic into that using all the ingredients. I love gardening. So I'm in touch with nature on a regular basis because I go out into the garden and I use herbs and work with plants from the garden. But I'm a witch whether I am doing the housework. So I work magic into, you know, when I'm vacuuming, I'm cleansing the house at the same time, because it has to work hand in hand with my daily life, because otherwise there just wouldn't be time to sort of separate it all. Daily practices, probably connecting with nature. Connection is a big thing for me, connecting with the land that you live on and the energy of the day. So the first thing I do is let the dog out and I have a tiny little edge of the city garden, but that's my first connection every day is to connect, just stand for a few moments and connect with the energy of the day and with the land that I'm standing on and that kind of sets me up for the day. So that's probably the thing that I do on a regular basis is that initial daily connection.

Kim: Saying good morning?

Rachel: Yeah, good morning to nature, good morning to the energy. And I think you get a feel as well, you can tell with the weather, with just the energy of the day brings different things. And sometimes I'll be standing out there just for a couple of minutes while the dog's pottering about or barking at pigeons. Like he does. I'll get a word. Or obviously. I'll get a word or a feeling, and I think that's a message. That's my focus for today. That's my magical focus for the day. And that's the connection with Mother Earth, with nature, that's kind of gifted to me first thing in the morning. And that does set me up for the day.

KIm: I should do that. Because I have to go outside every, I mean, I don't have to, it's not my cat, but  I feed a cat outside every day.

Rachel: Cats are completely different to dogs, aren't they? They are alluring to themselves.

Kim: The neighbors abandoned this cat. But anyway, I go outside every day.

Rachel: I expect several of the neighbors are now feeding it if I know cats.

Kim: Well, we're out in the boonies, so it's just me.

Rachel: Yeah, I mean, it's one of the most easiest, straightforward things to do. It is literally taking a couple of breaths while you're standing out there and connecting with the energies of the day. Every day is different and it brings different energies. So that's probably the ritual that I do most on a daily basis.

Kim: Cool. How would you say witchcraft has changed your life?

Rachel: Oh, immensely. It has. It's been over 30 years now, which is scary when you think about it anyway. I started learning witchcraft before the internet, so it was a bit of a struggle finding things to learn from, finding books and sourcing information. But it is life-changing, absolutely, and it's definitely made me a better person. I think being a witch gives you a toolkit that enables you to deal with a lot of the everyday things as well as the magical, because you've got that magical toolkit you can dip into to help you whether you need confidence or prosperity or whatever it might be, self-esteem, protection. You've got that magical toolkit that most people don't have. So I think it gives you a little bit of an edge really, and I think being connected to nature as well, which is probably the core for a lot of witches, that as well, it helps you live in tune with Mother Earth as well. So it's changed how I view the world as well, I think. But from a personal point of view, absolutely. I like to I'm a better person, more able to deal with things and perhaps not so feisty and a knee-jerk reaction as I used to be when I was younger. Yeah, I like to think that it has made me a better person, absolutely.

Kim: I do think you're more likely to think of the ripples that you make if you're not a witch, because you have to be aware of what you're doing.

Rachel: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, you've got to take responsibility for what you put out there. That's quite at the core of what I work with. Whatever it might be, whether it's good, bad, indifferent, you've got to be responsible for putting that energy out there. So yeah, absolutely, it does. It makes you think of the repercussions, doesn't it?

Kim: What would you say is the biggest motivator in your practice, and has it changed since you first started?

Rachel: Interesting question. I think that's one of the things I like about the pathway of witchcraft and paganism as well. It's flexible, it's fluid and it changes with you. So I think probably originally it just felt the right pathway to be on. So as I like learning, I like learning things, I've always loved learning. I think probably for me it was learning new things. And originally it was the new discoveries, the excitement of it. I want, you know, I've got to feed this learning habit. So the motivation was learning new things. And you know, I don't think that's actually faded. I think that's probably still it for me. A big part of it is learning new things. But now, perhaps this far into it, more experienced, I guess, more comfortable with it, is that it helps other people, that we build a community, even if you're a solitary, you're still part of a large community, particularly with the modern world where we are so connected by the internet, you can be part of a community when you want to be. So I think the motivation for me now is sharing the knowledge and sharing the experiences with others because people benefit from it. They benefit from it, I benefit from it. So yeah, I think that's probably my motivator now is to share with others.

Kim: What a good, what a good motivator! (both laugh)

Rachel: I didn't practice that answer, honestly.

Kim: It's so good though. I mean, that's, that sounds like something that we should probably all work toward.

Rachel: The world's a mad place at the moment, isn't it? Let's be honest. So if you can help just one person or support just one person, then you've made a bit of a difference, really, haven't you?

Kim: Let's talk about supporting ourselves. Do you ever have to deal with imposter syndrome or self-doubt about your practice? And if so, how do you deal with it?

Rachel: Every single day. (laughs)

Kim: No, I hate when people say that! I want people to be like "No, because everything's real that I do." (both laugh)

Rachel: I think being a witch, I think this many years into it, I know that that's what I am. I'm confident with that. I think for me the imposter bit comes with the book writing. Still even after so many books, I'm nervous when a new book goes out in case people don't think it's good enough or I'm not good enough or I'm not experienced enough or old enough. Or probably old enough, but yeah. You put something out there, you put yourself out there, really, and it does. I still get very nervous even when I put out a YouTube, I do regular talks on YouTube and even when I put that out I think, did I get that right? Will people think I'm really stupid saying that?

Kim: Oh no! (both laugh) I relate to that one so much. Every time I put out an episode I'm like, oh they're going to think I'm a complete moron.

Rachel: (laughs) Yeah,, every single time. And I think particularly with social media today, you put your head above the parapet and you are going to get shot at. So it does. Yeah, it does.

Kim: What a terrible decision that is!

Rachel: It is the truth, isn't it? It is the fact of it now. So yeah, it does. And it does make you wobble when people question things. Absolutely.

Kim: Yeah.

Rachel: Hopefully you learn from it. I don't know what you learn from it, but hopefully you do.

Kim: To be terrified of others. (both laugh)

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely.

Kim: What would you say is your biggest struggle when it comes to your practice?

Rachel: Probably timing, and I do hear that a lot actually, people not having enough time. Oh, I don't know how you do it. I don't know how you fit everything in. I don't know how you, I can't, I don't have time to be a witch. That's what I hear an awful lot. And it is a struggle. It is a regular struggle, which is where you, you, I have learned and I am still learning to work it into what I do on a daily basis. But I think, yeah, I think it would be timing. I'm very lucky with where I live,  I've never had any adverse reactions to being a witch. I've never had any, I've been very lucky. I've had a few people laugh and not believe that I'm a witch, but I think the struggle has to be just taking time out to have a proper ritual or work a proper spell with all the bells and whistles and all the ceremonial stuff, which I don't do on a regular basis, but it's nice to do occasionally. So, yeah, fitting everything in that I want to do is probably the biggest struggle.

Kim: I would imagine that some advice for people who say that they don't understand. When you said how your daily practice is, I mean making it a part of your life, because if you're a witch it's going to be part of your life.

Rachel:  I think that comes with experience, though, doesn't it? So I think, especially working with those new to witchcraft, the initial thing is to think that it's two separate things. It does take, I think, time and experience to work it into your everyday life and understand that it doesn't have to be separate. I mean, it's lucky. I work from home these days, but I used to work in an office every day, and that was kind of like a different compartment to my life because I had to go into the office in my suit and I had to be sensible and grown up, (laughs)

Kim: Uh, yuck.

Rachel: And all that horrible stuff. So that was difficult because I was talking to people that didn't know what I did. So that was quite, it was like having a secret life almost. I'm not like that these days, but it is difficult when you have to separate your life like that, I think.

Kim: Hopefully we don't have to do it forever.

Rachel: No, I am incredibly blessed these days.

Kim: Me too..

Rachel: Yeah, I can be me completely. (laughs)

Kim: What brings you the most joy in your practice?

Rachel: It sounds really cheesy, but I'm probably going to have to say my students, because being able to share, well, actually not just my students. The community that we've built on social media as well, engaging with like-minded people and having a laugh. Oh, you've got to have laughter. Laughter is so important. If anybody ever comes to our online rituals or our open rituals, our coven is full of laughter. Don't expect anything strict or ceremonial because you're not going to get it. There's lots of laughter and lots of cake normally whenever we get involved with anything. But I think that's it. I think it's the community community that we've built over the years, whether it is students, whether it is people that come to my rituals or listen to my talks, interact with my talks on a regular basis. And then when I go to festivals and events and people come up to me and say, I've watched you on YouTube. I liked this, I liked that. Or can I ask you a question about this? It's brilliant. I think it's reaching out and building that community. So, that makes me very happy.

Kim: I think that's one of my favorite things that people say that they love, because I also love it. I think witches as a whole are kind of fringe people and we're used to being on the outside. And so, having, being able to say, okay, I finally found my people.

Rachel: And I think the internet and social media has been the turning point, really, for that. Because you can still do your own thing. And you don't have to meet up with people in the real world if you don't want to.

Kim: Yeah.

Rachel:  And connect you can reach out if you've got a question or if you just want to chat with like-minded people, there's someone online all the time that you can reach out and connect with.

Kim: What would you say is your biggest fear in witchcraft or in your practice, if you have one?

Rachel: I think that would have to be back to the imposter thing. I think it would have to be people calling me out on it. (laughs) I don't think there's any grounds to it, but you know that fear is always there that you may do something completely stupid, or you know, make a big boo-boo, and get called out on it. I don't think I have on any other fears in particular as you know it is my faith, the path I walk, so I am confident in my pathway. The fear, I guess, is that you, or perhaps even that you inadvertently upset someone or put them on the wrong tack. That would probably be it.

Kim: What's something you did early on in your practice that you don't do anymore?

Rachel:  I think that would probably stem with when I first started, as I say it was before the internet, so the books I could only get hold of were Wicca and that's where I started. It's not where I've ended up, that's not that there's anything wrong with it at all, I still use a lot of the structure of Wicca in my own practice now and it gave me a brilliant structure and a grounding. But I don't follow such strict guidelines anymore. I don't like rules.

Kim: ME neither.

Rachel: I don't like being told what to do. And although Wicca is brilliant, it gave me such a good grounding and I'm very thankful. But I don't stick to those guidelines necessarily anymore. My practice is very much use whatever you've got to hand, trust your intuition and go with what feels right for you, whether it's against what it says in the book, do it. Trust your intuition.

Kim: I kind of wonder if, now that we do have the internet and we do have more access to different things,  I feel like most people who came into Witchcraft pre-internet did start out with Wicca, because that's what there was.

Rachel: Yeah,  it was the only thing that was there. And that's brilliant because it did put a lot of us on this wonderful pathway.

Kim: Do you think that now that stands true because it is one of the largest and most well-known-  because I very often am letting people know that Wicca doesn't mean witch.

Rachel: (laughs) Yes, and I'm a witch but I'm not Wiccan. It's confusing at first isn't it? It's a complete minefield at first. And I do explain that quite often.

Kim:  Do you feel like people are starting out Wiccan like we did or that the world is bigger now?

Rachel: I think the world is so much bigger now. There's so many books, there's so many online courses. The questions I get asked now that I don't often have good answers to are when people are looking for in-person groups or covens to learn with, because that's what with the Gardenerian and the Alexandrian, that was in-person, wasn't it? It was all very secret and you had to be part of the coven to learn. And I don't see so much of that anymore. It is a lot of people who are, they learn from books or they learn from online covens. Which is brilliant because it means that anyone anywhere can learn from the comfort of their own home and if necessary, still be in the broom closet about it. Yeah, it's a much bigger world and I think that is, I think it's good, I think it's the internet has brought a wider range of different pathways now and accessibility to the craft for anyone and everyone.

Kim:  I agree. Love it. What is your favorite tool, and it does not have to be a physical object, in your practice?

Rachel: My cauldron. I like to burn stuff. (both laugh) I like to set a fire to things and the cauldron is the safest place to put them. I do, I work with the element of fire quite a lot in my practice. So yeah, my altars, and I have a few of them, they do change on a regular basis, but the constant seems to be the cauldron because it's practical for chucking things in when you've got flames shooting up in the air.

Kim: Do you have a moon fire sign? I mean a fire moon sign?

Rachel: Do you know, I'm really, really terrible at doing all of the astrology stuff. I am Scorpio. I don't know what my other rising things are. But my, yeah, my main one is Scorpio, which I know is a water sign, but I've got to have fire in there somewhere.

Kim: You sound a little spicy. (both laugh) because I'm a Taurus which is earth but I have an Aries moon and I want to burn everything down all the time either in rage or joy. And also fight everyone.

Rachel: Definitely some fire in there somewhere. (laughs)

Kim: The "I don't like to be told what to do" screams Aries to me. If you could only recommend one source of information, book, podcast, YouTube channel, whatever, what would it be?

Rachel: That is an enormous question. I think these days YouTube is probably one of the best places, and obviously Spotify as well for podcasts. I listen to podcasts every night. I think I lay down to go to sleep and I listen to a podcast. And I've learned so much stuff, provided I don't fall asleep. I usually have the next night have to rewind the podcast because I've fallen asleep half way through. But I think with the internet, I think it has to be YouTube in general and podcasts because so many people like yourself are out there sharing information. And to actually engage, I mean books are brilliant. Obviously I've got to say books because I write them, but I like that you can hear someone's voice, or you can see someone's face. And it's very much like talking to them really, and listening, you get the tone don't you when you're listening with someone's voice. So I think that any of the online things like podcasts and YouTube are brilliant for learning new things.

Kim:  So you live in the UK.

Rachel: I do, I'm in the south of England in Hampshire down on the coast.

Kim: I don't necessarily know if you lived anywhere else, but if you've even visited anywhere else, do you think your practice would be different if you were somewhere else or grew up somewhere else?

Rachel: I grew up up not so close to the coast. I haven't lived on the coast my entire life. When I was a teenager, I lived on a farm in the middle of nowhere. I didn't appreciate nature so much then. (laughs) I wish I had, but I didn't. But I actually live on the edge of a city now, although I'm not far from the coast. I am on the edge of a big city. And I think, for me, it's been a bit of a learning curve to realize that you can practice witchcraft even if you don't live in a little tumble-down cottage in the middle of a forest. (laughs) It's not necessary to live like the witch in her gingerbread cottage. I think wherever you are you can find magic, because nature is always there, no matter where you are. Even if you are in a flat, in a high-rise flat or apartment in the middle of a huge city, nature is under your feet. It might be under the concrete, it might be under the car park, but nature's there. So for me we're back to connection, and that is one of my big things. Wherever you are, if you connect to the land that you're on, you will find yourself at home. Because you have to make onnection with your house, with the land, wherever it is, wherever you might be. It was interesting actually, I did go down to the ocean this morning in the rain, because it's Britain.

Kim: Oh man, that sounds like the life!

Rachel: And it's always raining. But I went to the ocean, and it is probably what you would call a traditional British seaside town. We have a pier with the fair on it, and we have fish and chip shops. It's not a beautiful coastline. It is a seaside town, but it's my ocean. I really, really connect to the energy of it. But I have been on holiday to several different places across the globe; Greece, Portugal, I've been to America, and I have been to, last year we went to Cornwall, Tintagel, the home of, supposed home of King Arthur. And there's some beautiful coastline there, but it wasn't my coastline. It wasn't the ocean that I'm familiar with, that I've got a connection with. So I think we find roots, we find places that are special to us. I mentioned Stonehenge, I've been to Stonehenge on several occasions. It's interesting, but it's not necessarily my favourite place, or even a sacred place to me. My back garden is more sacred to me, because I've got a connection to it. So I think it doesn't matter where you live. You form your own connections, and your craft builds around that. So it's nature wherever you are. Perhaps it is slightly different depending on where you live, but I think the base of it is your connection to the land beneath your feet.

Kim: I love how that keeps coming up over and over lately.

Rachel: It's my thing. It's one of my big things is connection to the land that you're on.

Kim: Now we all have ups and downs in our lives and in our practice. How do you pull yourself out of a magical slump?

Rachel: Oh, that is the $20 million question, isn't it? I think a lot of people have found this year in particular quite a bumpy ride so far. I know, well I have, health-wise and just all those annoying things that keep happening. This year seems to have been quite difficult and I am going to blame the planets for some of it. (laughs) But I think back to the toolkit, we do have this extra thing to draw on and we can work magic to help us. It's not easy to remember that we've got that extra magical toolkit, particularly if you are struggling with stuff, with life, with whatever it might be. It is easy to forget that we have those abilities there. But I wrote a book actually called Curative Magic, and it was based on all of the things that I've dealt with. So depression, stress, anxiety, panic attacks, menopause, all of the negative things in life, but dealing with them from a magical point of view. So you've got affirmations, you've got colour magic, you've got herbal magic, you have rituals, spells. All of those things in our magical toolkit can all be used to help bring us out of depressions or difficult times, dealing with grief, whatever it might be. It's working with that magical toolkit that all of us have to deal with it, to help with it. No, it's not going to solve the problems completely, but it can all help with it.

Kim: Hmmm.

Rachel: It's just remembering it's there; that's the first step. (laughs)

Kim: Which is hard when your brain is telling you everything is crap.

Rachel: Yes. Absolutely, we've all been there, we all do it.

Kim: What is something you wish was discussed more in the witch community?

Rachel: That's an interesting one too. I think it is about doing your own thing. I think it is about doing your own thing. I think it is about trusting your intuition, trusting that what you're doing is the right thing. Again, we're back to social media, where I think people get brave from behind the screen. And as soon as someone puts up, oh, I've done this ritual, or I've done this spell, someone is bound to say, oh, no, you don't do it like that, you do it like this. So I think perhaps it is about trusting your intuition and doing what works for you. People are very good at telling others how they believe it should be done. So I think it is about trusting your intuition, but also working with things that are right for you. But I also think as well, which is a bit contrary, is about checking your sources. I was talking to people about this recently. There's a lot of misinformation on social media, there's a lot of misinformation on websites, there's even misinformation in books which is, it's scary. So I think, I think it is about checking things. I think it's about double checking sources. I think that goes for anything actually, not just witchcraft. Any, anything, any news information, whatever it might be, is checking sources. So I think it is about talking about how you practice, why you practice and why you do it, and where your information has come from, but also knowing that it is right for you. If we all talk about how we work stuff, then you'll find someone says, oh, I didn't know you worked it like that. I do that, too. Or that's reassuring, to know that someone else does it like that. So I think it's sharing, it's sharing how you practice stuff, sharing the knowledge, because we all learn from that. And if we're all talking about it and we're all sharing it and all discussing it, then hopefully people won't feel that they've got it wrong, or they will learn that there are other ways to do things.

Kim: Yeah. Do you ever work with other witches?

Rachel: I am very blessed to run the Kitchen Witch Coven and the school with three lovely ladies. Ness, Heather and Sue are my right, left and other right, left hand ladies. (laughs) They're the Kitchen Witch Posse, we work very closely together. We work in rituals together, we work online together, we run workshops together. It just works. We work together really well. It's an amazing team and I couldn't do half of what I do without them. And then we do work with the students in the Coven, we work together and we do hold open rituals so we work online with people across the globe, which is a fascinating experience. You'll have us in England and then there'll be witches in New Zealand and in America and in Switzerland and in Germany and we're all working a ritual together at the same time. It's brilliant, great fun.

Kim: I love that. We have something, some people that I work with have a similar thing that's run by a friend of mine. I don't often participate in it, but sometimes I do because sometimes you've just got to throw your energy in there.

Rachel: That's the beauty though, isn't it, of having this internet online thing. You can work as a solitary, or you can choose to work with a group when suits you. I think that's that's the lovely flexibility of it.

Kim: Also, you don't have to put on pants.

Rachel: (laughs) We have had rituals where people have turned up in their in their pajamas. So that is all, is all good. (laughs)

Kim: Please share 3 of your biggest influences on your practice, and if they're people, what are you thanking them for?

Rachel: I learnt a lot from books originally but I learnt most I think from getting out there and actually doing it. And I was very lucky to work with some amazing teachers. But you know, I think probably the biggest influences, the people that I've learned the most from have been my students, and the people that I interact with on our witchcraft community. Because you're sharing knowledge, because you're sharing how you do things. We influence each other, and we influence each other's practices. And I think that's, we're all different, but we're all walking a similar pathway. So by sharing, you influence each other as well. So I think that would be, you know, the influences I get are from my coven, from the Kitchen Witch Posse, from the community on social media that we've built. We influence each other, I think, and we learn. I think even, you know, 30 years on and I'm still learning stuff, which is fantastic.

Kim: The world is big.

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely.

Kim: What would you tell somebody just starting out?

Rachel: Absorb all the information you can, read everything, investigate everything, source check everything. It is such a huge pathway. I think witchcraft is a big umbrella for lots of other things. Well, paganism is really, isn't it? There's so many different pathways. So it is about investigating. Enjoy learning. You don't have to put a label on yourself, you don't have to put yourself in a little box or a little pigeonhole. Learn, research, read everything that you can get your hands on and make it your own pathway, really. Take the bits that work for you. It's a big old pick and mix. Help yourself to it. (both laugh)

Kim: Now, having answered all these questions, who do you think it would be fun or interesting to hear from? Who should I ask on the show next?

Rachel: Well, I'm going to have to give a shout out to my fellow Moon Books authors. There is such a talented bunch. So I would have to say all of the Moon Books authors. I hope you've got time for them all. (both laugh)

Kim: I'll schedule it in.

Rachel: Yeah. (both laugh)

Kim:  Is there anything else you wanted to bring up? Anything I didn't ask you, or anything that you wanted to ask me?

Rachel: I think it is brilliant. So thank you for doing this podcast. I think we all learn from sharing the experience and it's brilliant to have these resources to connect with. But anyone wants to find out more about me, RachelPatterson.co.uk and you'll find the Kitchen Witch links from there as well. You'll find me on YouTube as well. I've got a channel there, I do regular weekly talk and various other things as well. We've got a group on Facebook. Join the community, that's what we're all about really, is making connections and sharing knowledge with each other.

Kim: And recipes, it sounds like.

Rachel: (laughs) Yes we do! Even when we do an online ritual, we have a bit where you normally have your feasting and your drinking, so we like to know what everyone's eating. (laughs)

Kim: Okay I love that.

Rachel: Everyone shares what food they're eating or what drink they're drinking, and then we end up being really hungry. (both laugh)

Kim: So the last two things, number one, please recommend something, anything at all, doesn't have to be witchcraft or metaphysical or cult-related, just recommend something to the listeners.

Rachel: Be open to whatever comes your way and trust your intuition. I can't stress enough about trusting your intuition. It will never let you down. 

Kim: And finally, please tell me a story that you love to tell. 

Rachel: (laughs) I do have one about a very sacred space in Glastonbury, in England. Obviously it is a very spiritual town, said to be where King Arthur was layed to rest, said to be Avalon. There is a very beautiful goddess temple and it's lovely. And you go in and you take your shoes off, and there's a huge altar that's always dressed impeccably, beautiful artwork, drapes, curtains, flowers, candles. So myself and the group went in, we took our shoes off, we all sat down, there's nice soft music playing and there's people meditating, and there was a window open and we'd all sat down and we're very quiet and we'd all slipped into meditation. And a gust of wind blew through the window, knocked a vase over, (Kim gasps) which knocked candles over, which set fire to the whole of the curtains, and the whole curtain went up in flames. (laughs) Everyone jumped up and we tipped water from the vases onto the flames (Kim laughs) and packed the candles out and absolute chaos. I don't know what spirit or the gods were trying to tell us that day, but it was total utter chaos. 

Kim: I love that.

Rachel: We didn't get banned or anything, so we're all right.

Kim: Well thank you so much for coming on the show!

Rachel: YOu're very welcome. It was a blast. Thank you so much.

Kim: Oh good! Okay and everybody be sure to go check out the links and go follow Rachel on the variety of social media places she told you about. And I will see you on the internet. Bye!

Rachel: (fades in) (laughing) Because I worked for so many years in an office as a personal assistant to a CEO so I had quite a responsible, you know, gotta be sensible kind of job. I didn't have tattoos until I was 31. And at that age I got my first tattoo. A moon, obviously, and then I haven't stopped since then. I have my arms covered, my legs covered, my back covered. (laughs) Yeah, I've got all sorts. I've got a dragon... (fades out)

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